Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsrael's bogus case for bombing Gaza (Max Blumenthal)
(snip)
As is so often the case, the Israeli army is lying. According to the army's own investigation of the Eliat attack last year, the attackers were not from Gaza as Israeli government spokespeople initially claimed -- they were Egyptian. The army's investigative findings were first reported by Alex Fishman, the military correspondent for the Israeli daily Yedioth Aharanoth, who had treated the earlier attempts to blame Gaza's Popular Resistance Committees for Eilat with extreme skepticism. Bloggers Idan Landau [Hebrew only], Richard Silverstein and Yossi Gurvitz also marshaled evidence shredding the army's case against Gaza.
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/5046
ProgressiveProfessor
(22,144 posts)Should we be using World Net Daily or Stormfront?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)now I could understand you disagreeing with what he said but you do not even address that
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)although it is difficult to guess whether he's comparing Max Blumenthal or al-Akhbar to the Nazis.
For what its worth, al-Akhbar is widely regarded as the best newspaper in the Arab world. The NY Times did a profile on it which is interesting reading in itself:-
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/29/world/middleeast/29beirut.html?_r=1
Our project is basically anti-imperialism, said Khaled Saghieh, Al Akhbars mild and cerebral managing editor, who abandoned a Ph.D. in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, to help start the paper. That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the papers resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollahs fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite groups leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanons complex sectarian and political landscape.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Seems their goals line up pretty well with Stormfront.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)from the NYT article
*Our project is basically anti-imperialism, said Khaled Saghieh, Al Akhbars mild and cerebral managing editor, who abandoned a Ph.D. in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, to help start the paper. That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the papers resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollahs fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite groups leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanons complex sectarian and political landscape.
Al Akhbar has sometimes criticized Hezbollah in print (though mildly), and Mr. Saghieh himself who writes a regular column has written excoriating critiques of Hezbollahs chief Christian ally, the party of Michel Aoun, a former general.
note this passage has already been posted above but apparently went unnoticed
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)while maintaining their strategic alliances for access reasons.
YMMV
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)do you anything to say about the Max Blumenthal article?
oh and what exactly are you saying here-YMMV? how should I take that? my "mileage" interesting indeed, unless of course you meant somethingelse?
Response to azurnoir (Reply #8)
azurnoir This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)You are on DU. This site specializes in people who think something isn't far left or right enough and complains that action x, y or z should be taken to rectify it.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and confusing is not the word that came to mind when I asked
really I would rather discuss the OP itself however.......
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)in the comment your replying to, unless of course you have no point?
its obvious you have no desire to discuss the OP except to try to kill the messenger
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Never mind. I give up. Have a glorious evening.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Az asked you for yr opinions on the actual article, and so far you've said nothing about it...
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Happy to talk about the POS article, but that wasn't what I was asked about. Apparently following my remarks with "YMMV" on a difference of interpretation was more important. Scroll up.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Az: 'do you anything to say about the Max Blumenthal article? '
So you were asked about it. Now that the crap about the newspaper being a mouthpiece of Hezbollah has been put to bed, how about you read the article and *gasp* say what you think about what's written in it?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)I just got it. Post 7 was supposed to be some sort of response to the article! I must commend you on the great detail and thought you put into it!
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)clearly, the Party of God likes to keep up with the times.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)It's a state-owned newspaper. I haven't read it myself, so I'm interested in any evidence you can provide that it's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah...
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)(not to mention, Hezbollah isn't a "state"
and secondly, did you follow the link provided to the NYT piece?
That may clear up the confusion, given that is where my remarks came from.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)No shit? Hezbollah's not a state?? Goodness knows what we'd do without those little snippets of information to help us out!
I read the article. Nowhere does it say that the paper's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah..
And there's no confusion on my part. I asked you a simple question and expected that you might actually attempt to back up the claim you made. Asking you to do that doesn't mean someone's confused...,
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Not sure what *it* yr referring to...
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)"it" refers to the claim, "Asking you to do that doesn't mean someone's confused...,"
You about done yet?
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)You haven't provided anything to back up that ridiculous claim that the newspaper's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah.
I've got all the patience in the world to walk you through it really slowly until you get it straight. Maybe you could start by explaining what you read in the article led you to the conclusion you did?
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)you
read
the
NYT
article
?
Mouthpiece for access. This isn't rocket science, V.
If your scroll bar is busted, shout out and I will recopy the relevant quote as a reply specifically to you.
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Of course I read the article. I asked you to point out the bits of the article that led you to the rather bizarre solution you came to. Not a difficult thing for someone who's actually interested in constructive discussion to do, but for some reason you have a problem with doing it...
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)Okay, I'll repost it for you then. Just because reposting something from upthread might be considered helpful, because you are anything but snarky and OBVIOUSLY just seeking information and input.
Al Akhbars access to Hezbollah allows it to scoop other papers on Lebanons biggest continuing story, but it also publishes muckraking exposés on the abuse of domestic workers, prison overcrowding and other delicate subjects.
That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the papers resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollahs fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite groups leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanons complex sectarian and political landscape.
Al Akhbar has sometimes criticized Hezbollah in print (though mildly), and Mr. Saghieh himself who writes a regular column has written excoriating critiques of Hezbollahs chief Christian ally, the party of Michel Aoun, a former general.
Mouthpiece. Access.
You need me to repost #7 (that you have already referred to) as well?
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Snark tends to lead to people getting all confused and stuff. You hadn't posted that before at all. Now you have, let's have a look through. The bolded bits are what you claim leads you to make the strange claim that the paper is a mouthpiece for Hezbollah. Oh-kay...
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that a newspaper that champions gay rights and feminism isn't a mouthpiece of a fundamentalist religious bunch like Hezbollah. Mouthpieces don't champion things that the ones controlling them don't agree with. The ABC here is state-owned, clearly supports the ALP, and has access to it. There's always a rousing chorus from the RW types that the ABC is a mouthpiece for the ALP, even though blind freddy can see that the ABC at times disagrees with ALP policy and isn't shy about expressing it. So, claiming that something is a mouthpiece merely because it agrees with something and has access to a group is really falling far short of the mark....
No, thanks for the kind offer, but there's no need to repost a post that was very light on when it came to any sort of constructive discussion of the actual article.
Anyway, take my suggestion about lightening up on the snark. This group can be a pleasant place if you treat others how you'd like to be treated yrself
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)with emphasis added.
Here's #7 responding to the allegation that it can't possibly be pro-hesbollah as people complain about aspects of it:
while maintaining their strategic alliances for access reasons.
Maybe start from the beginning on this one?
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)I'll repeat it. I asked you to point me to the parts of the article that led you to believe it's a mouthpiece for Hezbollah. You hadn't posted those bolded bits before. Now that you have, I saw what bits you were talking about, and if you read the response you just replied to, I've explained why supporting a group and having access to it doesn't mean that a newspaper or any media source is a 'mouthpiece'...
No, we don't need to start over on this one. Any claim made that the newspaper is a mouthpiece for Hezbollah are untrue, so not sure where else you want to head on this one...
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)You enjoy your day now, ok?
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)Woulda kept me tossing and turning for hours tonight otherwise!
My day's finished
Ruby the Liberal
(26,219 posts)I do get twisted up on time zones (and we just changed ours today), so appreciate that patience. I can calculate Europe pretty easily, but Oz has that whole "new day, carry the one and subtract 8" thing going on. Heh.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)cause interest in the original has some strings attached apparently
pelsar
(12,283 posts)because its takes a real moron not to figure that one out-something to do with tunnels
So, 34 days later, why were there no mourning huts in Gaza?
because they are not always there and proves nothing
I mean, the IDF has been spouting disinformation about this attack for a month now. Why should we believe what it says without proof?
there is never any proof....just what the various spokesmen claim.....true or not true.....
Violet_Crumble
(35,977 posts)From the article: 'According to the army's own investigation of the Eliat attack last year, the attackers were not from Gaza as Israeli government spokespeople initially claimed -- they were Egyptian. The army's investigative findings were first reported by Alex Fishman, the military correspondent for the Israeli daily Yedioth Aharanoth, who had treated the earlier attempts to blame Gaza's Popular Resistance Committees for Eilat with extreme skepticism. Bloggers Idan Landau [Hebrew only], Richard Silverstein and Yossi Gurvitz also marshaled evidence shredding the army's case against Gaza.
Finally, in November, Egyptian security forces arrested the suspected mastermind of the Eilat plot, shattering the Israeli army's initial claims about Gazan culpability. By then, however, Israeli forces had already killed 30 Gazans in retaliation for an attack they had absolutely nothing to do with.'