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shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 08:26 PM Mar 2012

Israel's bogus case for bombing Gaza (Max Blumenthal)

The Israeli army claimed that it initiated the assault on Gaza in order to kill two alleged militants who supposedly "masterminded" a brazen and deadly terror attack near the Israeli city of Eilat in August of last year.

(snip)

As is so often the case, the Israeli army is lying. According to the army's own investigation of the Eliat attack last year, the attackers were not from Gaza as Israeli government spokespeople initially claimed -- they were Egyptian. The army's investigative findings were first reported by Alex Fishman, the military correspondent for the Israeli daily Yedioth Aharanoth, who had treated the earlier attempts to blame Gaza's Popular Resistance Committees for Eilat with extreme skepticism. Bloggers Idan Landau [Hebrew only], Richard Silverstein and Yossi Gurvitz also marshaled evidence shredding the army's case against Gaza.


http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/5046
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Israel's bogus case for bombing Gaza (Max Blumenthal) (Original Post) shaayecanaan Mar 2012 OP
Highly questionable source ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2012 #1
Max Blumenthal is equivalent to Stormfront ? azurnoir Mar 2012 #2
I presume that he is referring to the newspaper shaayecanaan Mar 2012 #3
Thanks for info on the paper hardly stormfront stuff n/t azurnoir Mar 2012 #4
Its a mouthpiece of Hezbollah. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #5
a mouth piece for Hezbollah? one that Hezbollah complains about? azurnoir Mar 2012 #6
I read that as some complaining about them not being far enough to the extreme Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #7
ah is that what you read I see azurnoir Mar 2012 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author azurnoir Mar 2012 #9
How is that confusing? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #11
and exactly what are you rectifying? azurnoir Mar 2012 #12
LOL! So do so. You asked for clarification and I clarified. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #13
again what do you think need rectifying here that is what I asked azurnoir Mar 2012 #14
Answering your questions? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #18
But you haven't been answering Az's questions... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #24
I quoted the questions. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #25
You were asked about the article... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #27
Does post 7 show up on your monitor? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #29
Yes. Why do you ask? n/t Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #31
*sigh* Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #33
OMG! I'm sooo sorry for wasting yr valuable time, Ruby! Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #34
well same to you - Have a glorious evening n/t azurnoir Mar 2012 #28
I wasn't aware that Hezbollah mouth pieces normally championed gay rights... shaayecanaan Mar 2012 #15
Lol azurnoir Mar 2012 #16
Definitely explains where the complaints from the faithful come in. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #20
Somehow I very much doubt you read Al Akhbar and would know... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #17
First, I never said it was state owned Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #19
Never said you said it was. You said it was a mouthpiece of Hezbollah... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #21
Apparently upthread it did. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #22
It really helps to make some sense when replying... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #23
More than happy to help. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #26
Great. Feel free to start anytime now... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #30
LOL! Again, did Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #32
It might help to drop the snarky attitude... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #35
Really? Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #37
Yep. That's why I suggested dropping the snark... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #39
It was a direct copy and paste from post #3 Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #40
Are you having trouble grasping what I asked you for... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #41
Nowhere at all. Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #42
Good. Glad all that's sorted out.... Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #43
Enjoy your evening then Ruby the Liberal Mar 2012 #44
Here is the same piece from Blumenthal's blog azurnoir Mar 2012 #10
not much here.... pelsar Mar 2012 #36
But what about this? The IDF were real morons for a while there? Violet_Crumble Mar 2012 #38

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
2. Max Blumenthal is equivalent to Stormfront ?
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 10:21 PM
Mar 2012

now I could understand you disagreeing with what he said but you do not even address that

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
3. I presume that he is referring to the newspaper
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 10:38 PM
Mar 2012

although it is difficult to guess whether he's comparing Max Blumenthal or al-Akhbar to the Nazis.

For what its worth, al-Akhbar is widely regarded as the best newspaper in the Arab world. The NY Times did a profile on it which is interesting reading in itself:-

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/29/world/middleeast/29beirut.html?_r=1

They are a remarkable blend: the paper champions gay rights, feminism and other leftist causes, even as it wholeheartedly supports Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Shiite movement. Al Akhbar’s access to Hezbollah allows it to scoop other papers on Lebanon’s biggest continuing story, but it also publishes muckraking exposés on the abuse of domestic workers, prison overcrowding and other delicate subjects. Add splashy full-page color photos and witty tabloid-style headlines, and you have an alluring product.

“Our project is basically anti-imperialism,” said Khaled Saghieh, Al Akhbar’s mild and cerebral managing editor, who abandoned a Ph.D. in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, to help start the paper. That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the paper’s resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollah’s fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles — though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite group’s leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanon’s complex sectarian and political landscape.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
6. a mouth piece for Hezbollah? one that Hezbollah complains about?
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 11:40 PM
Mar 2012

from the NYT article

*“Our project is basically anti-imperialism,” said Khaled Saghieh, Al Akhbar’s mild and cerebral managing editor, who abandoned a Ph.D. in political science at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, to help start the paper. That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the paper’s resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollah’s fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles — though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite group’s leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanon’s complex sectarian and political landscape.

Al Akhbar has sometimes criticized Hezbollah in print (though mildly), and Mr. Saghieh himself — who writes a regular column — has written excoriating critiques of Hezbollah’s chief Christian ally, the party of Michel Aoun, a former general.

note this passage has already been posted above but apparently went unnoticed

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
7. I read that as some complaining about them not being far enough to the extreme
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 11:46 PM
Mar 2012

while maintaining their strategic alliances for access reasons.

YMMV

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. ah is that what you read I see
Sun Mar 11, 2012, 11:50 PM
Mar 2012

do you anything to say about the Max Blumenthal article?

oh and what exactly are you saying here-YMMV? how should I take that? my "mileage" interesting indeed, unless of course you meant somethingelse?

Response to azurnoir (Reply #8)

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
11. How is that confusing?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:09 AM
Mar 2012

You are on DU. This site specializes in people who think something isn't far left or right enough and complains that action x, y or z should be taken to rectify it.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
12. and exactly what are you rectifying?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:15 AM
Mar 2012

and confusing is not the word that came to mind when I asked

really I would rather discuss the OP itself however.......

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
13. LOL! So do so. You asked for clarification and I clarified.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:19 AM
Mar 2012
oh and what exactly are you saying here-YMMV? how should I take that? my "mileage" interesting indeed, unless of course you meant somethingelse? :eyes


azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
14. again what do you think need rectifying here that is what I asked
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:26 AM
Mar 2012

in the comment your replying to, unless of course you have no point?

its obvious you have no desire to discuss the OP except to try to kill the messenger

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
24. But you haven't been answering Az's questions...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:33 AM
Mar 2012

Az asked you for yr opinions on the actual article, and so far you've said nothing about it...

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
25. I quoted the questions.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:37 AM
Mar 2012

Happy to talk about the POS article, but that wasn't what I was asked about. Apparently following my remarks with "YMMV" on a difference of interpretation was more important. Scroll up.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
27. You were asked about the article...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:39 AM
Mar 2012

Az: 'do you anything to say about the Max Blumenthal article? '

So you were asked about it. Now that the crap about the newspaper being a mouthpiece of Hezbollah has been put to bed, how about you read the article and *gasp* say what you think about what's written in it?

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
34. OMG! I'm sooo sorry for wasting yr valuable time, Ruby!
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:48 AM
Mar 2012

I just got it. Post 7 was supposed to be some sort of response to the article! I must commend you on the great detail and thought you put into it!

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)
15. I wasn't aware that Hezbollah mouth pieces normally championed gay rights...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:38 AM
Mar 2012

clearly, the Party of God likes to keep up with the times.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
17. Somehow I very much doubt you read Al Akhbar and would know...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 12:47 AM
Mar 2012

It's a state-owned newspaper. I haven't read it myself, so I'm interested in any evidence you can provide that it's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah...

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
19. First, I never said it was state owned
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:17 AM
Mar 2012

(not to mention, Hezbollah isn't a "state&quot

and secondly, did you follow the link provided to the NYT piece?

That may clear up the confusion, given that is where my remarks came from.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
21. Never said you said it was. You said it was a mouthpiece of Hezbollah...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:24 AM
Mar 2012

No shit? Hezbollah's not a state?? Goodness knows what we'd do without those little snippets of information to help us out!

I read the article. Nowhere does it say that the paper's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah..

And there's no confusion on my part. I asked you a simple question and expected that you might actually attempt to back up the claim you made. Asking you to do that doesn't mean someone's confused...,

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
26. More than happy to help.
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:38 AM
Mar 2012

"it" refers to the claim, "Asking you to do that doesn't mean someone's confused...,"

You about done yet?

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
30. Great. Feel free to start anytime now...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:42 AM
Mar 2012

You haven't provided anything to back up that ridiculous claim that the newspaper's a mouthpiece of Hezbollah.

I've got all the patience in the world to walk you through it really slowly until you get it straight. Maybe you could start by explaining what you read in the article led you to the conclusion you did?

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
32. LOL! Again, did
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:45 AM
Mar 2012

you

read

the

NYT

article

?

Mouthpiece for access. This isn't rocket science, V.

If your scroll bar is busted, shout out and I will recopy the relevant quote as a reply specifically to you.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
35. It might help to drop the snarky attitude...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:50 AM
Mar 2012

Of course I read the article. I asked you to point out the bits of the article that led you to the rather bizarre solution you came to. Not a difficult thing for someone who's actually interested in constructive discussion to do, but for some reason you have a problem with doing it...

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
37. Really?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:10 AM
Mar 2012

Okay, I'll repost it for you then. Just because reposting something from upthread might be considered helpful, because you are anything but snarky and OBVIOUSLY just seeking information and input.



They are a remarkable blend: the paper champions gay rights, feminism and other leftist causes, even as it wholeheartedly supports Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Shiite movement.

Al Akhbar’s access to Hezbollah allows it to scoop other papers on Lebanon’s biggest continuing story, but it also publishes muckraking exposés on the abuse of domestic workers, prison overcrowding and other delicate subjects.

That insurrectionary theme, he said, links the paper’s resistance to neoliberal economic policies and its support for Hezbollah’s fight against Israel. There are plenty of disagreements with Hezbollah, whose members regularly call to complain about articles — though not in any official capacity. But the Shiite group’s leaders appear to recognize the importance of maintaining alliances across Lebanon’s complex sectarian and political landscape.

Al Akhbar has sometimes criticized Hezbollah in print (though mildly), and Mr. Saghieh himself — who writes a regular column — has written excoriating critiques of Hezbollah’s chief Christian ally, the party of Michel Aoun, a former general.


Mouthpiece. Access.

You need me to repost #7 (that you have already referred to) as well?

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
39. Yep. That's why I suggested dropping the snark...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:20 AM
Mar 2012

Snark tends to lead to people getting all confused and stuff. You hadn't posted that before at all. Now you have, let's have a look through. The bolded bits are what you claim leads you to make the strange claim that the paper is a mouthpiece for Hezbollah. Oh-kay...

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that a newspaper that champions gay rights and feminism isn't a mouthpiece of a fundamentalist religious bunch like Hezbollah. Mouthpieces don't champion things that the ones controlling them don't agree with. The ABC here is state-owned, clearly supports the ALP, and has access to it. There's always a rousing chorus from the RW types that the ABC is a mouthpiece for the ALP, even though blind freddy can see that the ABC at times disagrees with ALP policy and isn't shy about expressing it. So, claiming that something is a mouthpiece merely because it agrees with something and has access to a group is really falling far short of the mark....

No, thanks for the kind offer, but there's no need to repost a post that was very light on when it came to any sort of constructive discussion of the actual article.

Anyway, take my suggestion about lightening up on the snark. This group can be a pleasant place if you treat others how you'd like to be treated yrself

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
40. It was a direct copy and paste from post #3
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:29 AM
Mar 2012

with emphasis added.

Here's #7 responding to the allegation that it can't possibly be pro-hesbollah as people complain about aspects of it:

I read that as some complaining about them not being far enough to the extreme

while maintaining their strategic alliances for access reasons.


Maybe start from the beginning on this one?

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
41. Are you having trouble grasping what I asked you for...
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:35 AM
Mar 2012

I'll repeat it. I asked you to point me to the parts of the article that led you to believe it's a mouthpiece for Hezbollah. You hadn't posted those bolded bits before. Now that you have, I saw what bits you were talking about, and if you read the response you just replied to, I've explained why supporting a group and having access to it doesn't mean that a newspaper or any media source is a 'mouthpiece'...

No, we don't need to start over on this one. Any claim made that the newspaper is a mouthpiece for Hezbollah are untrue, so not sure where else you want to head on this one...

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
43. Good. Glad all that's sorted out....
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:07 AM
Mar 2012

Woulda kept me tossing and turning for hours tonight otherwise!

My day's finished

Ruby the Liberal

(26,219 posts)
44. Enjoy your evening then
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 03:10 AM
Mar 2012


I do get twisted up on time zones (and we just changed ours today), so appreciate that patience. I can calculate Europe pretty easily, but Oz has that whole "new day, carry the one and subtract 8" thing going on. Heh.

pelsar

(12,283 posts)
36. not much here....
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 01:54 AM
Mar 2012
Even though the IDF claimed the attackers came from the Gaza Strip – nobody explained how, precisely, that happened,

because its takes a real moron not to figure that one out-something to do with tunnels

So, 34 days later, why were there no mourning huts in Gaza?
because they are not always there and proves nothing

I mean, the IDF has been spouting disinformation about this attack for a month now. Why should we believe what it says without proof?

there is never any proof....just what the various spokesmen claim.....true or not true.....

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
38. But what about this? The IDF were real morons for a while there?
Mon Mar 12, 2012, 02:10 AM
Mar 2012

From the article: 'According to the army's own investigation of the Eliat attack last year, the attackers were not from Gaza as Israeli government spokespeople initially claimed -- they were Egyptian. The army's investigative findings were first reported by Alex Fishman, the military correspondent for the Israeli daily Yedioth Aharanoth, who had treated the earlier attempts to blame Gaza's Popular Resistance Committees for Eilat with extreme skepticism. Bloggers Idan Landau [Hebrew only], Richard Silverstein and Yossi Gurvitz also marshaled evidence shredding the army's case against Gaza.

Finally, in November, Egyptian security forces arrested the suspected mastermind of the Eilat plot, shattering the Israeli army's initial claims about Gazan culpability. By then, however, Israeli forces had already killed 30 Gazans in retaliation for an attack they had absolutely nothing to do with.'

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