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R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
Fri Apr 4, 2014, 07:05 PM Apr 2014

Settlers destroy over 300 grape vines near Bethlehem

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=687509

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Israeli settlers on Friday destroyed over 300 newly planted grape vines in al-Khader village south of Bethlehem, locals said.

Landowner Mohammad Ibrahim Sbeih told Ma'an that he saw settlers from the illegal Sde Boaz settlement on his land in the al-Shub area.

Coordinator for the local resistance committee Ahmad Salah told Ma'an that the settlers vandalized 18 dunams (four acres) of land.
---
In 2013, there were 399 incidents of settler violence against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, according to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
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Settlers destroy over 300 grape vines near Bethlehem (Original Post) R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 OP
Aw jeez. louis-t Apr 2014 #1
Just shame...and sham come to mind. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 #2
Yeah, sham does come to mind! Fozzledick Apr 2014 #25
Maan publishes antisemitic screeds & recently lied about IDF pumping > 10 bullets into the feet.... shira Apr 2014 #3
Yet you went right along with this one from Ma'an azurnoir Apr 2014 #4
Wasn't aware it was Maan. Why do u keep posting articles from such a vile site? n/t shira Apr 2014 #5
you were not aware of what you were posting on especially when the OP made note of it? -really azurnoir Apr 2014 #6
I had read about the same thing from another source. shira Apr 2014 #7
Marcus had a hand in creating the movie Obsession the one that was used to smear Barack Obama azurnoir Apr 2014 #8
That's misleading. Marcus was interviewed in the movie. So? He didn't create it. shira Apr 2014 #9
Pathetic deceptions, over and over. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #11
It's from your 972 source. The Judge asked for incitement from al Jazeera & al Arabiya shira Apr 2014 #12
Judge was not confused, but I am pleased you are down for saying so. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #14
Then why did she ask for al-Jazeera/al-Arabiya media to prove PA incitement? n/t shira Apr 2014 #16
Only you would attempt to sell a judges ruling as confused. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #19
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #22
Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #24
What's deceptive? The Judge also asked for evidence from PA media al-Fajr shira Apr 2014 #26
Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #27
Yeah, actually, they ARE Scootaloo Apr 2014 #30
Yours is similar to the canard that all criticism of Israel is antisemitic.... shira Apr 2014 #32
Funny, if not for that "canard" you would never have any argument to make Scootaloo Apr 2014 #37
"Why do u keep posting articles from such a vile site?" Scootaloo Apr 2014 #28
You don't see the problem with Maan and you're LOL'ing? Classic. n/t shira Apr 2014 #33
I think it's ludicrous that you, of all people, are trying to criticize a source. Scootaloo Apr 2014 #38
Ms Palwatch, at it again I see. Say anything to avoid the OP of terrorist settlers, of which Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #10
How do u know this story isn't as bogus as the one re: IDF pumping 10 bullets.... shira Apr 2014 #15
Because Elders of Zion blog is not a news source. Haaretz and other Isareli publications Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #17
Those pics show Palestinians who were shot did not get 10 bullets to the feet. shira Apr 2014 #21
Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #23
300 grape vines destroyed by settlers, disgraceful. Itamar Marcus is associated with Palwatch Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #13
Recent hate trash that racist Maan published can still be viewed on their arabic website: shira Apr 2014 #18
Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #20
This thread explains the reason why intelligent honest people support Israel & are against BDS shira Apr 2014 #29
This OP is about settler violence, all documented by HR groups...no lies. Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #31
Ms Palwatch keeps on flailing at the facts presented at her. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 #34
Yea, no settler violence is allowed to be acknowledged here, even when Israeli HR group Jefferson23 Apr 2014 #35
Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #36
 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
2. Just shame...and sham come to mind.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 01:56 PM
Apr 2014

Shame for the Israelis that turn a blind eye, instigate and perpetuate these crimes. Shame for the way the USA carries the water for Israel and ignores the state of apartheid that has settled over the Palestinians.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
3. Maan publishes antisemitic screeds & recently lied about IDF pumping > 10 bullets into the feet....
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 02:05 PM
Apr 2014

...of certain Palestinian soccer players.

This racist publication is the equivalent of the KKK publishing its own National Enquirer to report on the crimes committed by African Americans against white people.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
6. you were not aware of what you were posting on especially when the OP made note of it? -really
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 02:52 PM
Apr 2014

well okay then

shira (20,816 posts)
5. Wasn't aware it was Maan. Why do u keep posting articles from such a vile site? n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113461383#post5

BTW I haven't posted from Ma'an for sometime now, however the incitement charges pressed by one of your fav's Itamar Marcus who is an Islamophobic Righwinger on the order of Robert Spence were thrown out by an Israeli court and you know that

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
7. I had read about the same thing from another source.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 03:31 PM
Apr 2014

But now I'm curious:

1. Why do u say Itamar Marcus is Islamophobic and on the order of Robert Spencer?

2. The Israeli Court didn't challenge the veracity of any of his reports. In fact, the Judge seemed confused when it called into question Marcus not using sources like Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera, which are not Palestinian media. The fact is that Marcus did indeed show that PA controlled media does in fact incite.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. Marcus had a hand in creating the movie Obsession the one that was used to smear Barack Obama
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 03:35 PM
Apr 2014

during his 2008 presidential campaign

and the Israeli did not seem confused when (s)he threw the case out of court

you read it from another source?

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
9. That's misleading. Marcus was interviewed in the movie. So? He didn't create it.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:04 PM
Apr 2014

Alan Dershowitz and Robert Wistrich were also interviewed. They're not rightwing hatebots like Robert Spencer.

And yes, the Judge was confused. If you read the article about the case, you'll see the Judge wanted more evidence from PA controlled media to prove that the PA incites. She asked for inciteful material from more popular media like Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya, which makes no sense whatsoever since they are not PA controlled at all.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
12. It's from your 972 source. The Judge asked for incitement from al Jazeera & al Arabiya
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:20 PM
Apr 2014

They are not Palestinian media sources.

The Judge was therefore very confused.

The judgment also mentioned that Marcus was questioned as to why he didn’t include any citations from the TV networks Aljazeera and al-Arabiya, which are very popular among residents of the Palestinian Authority. “As far as Al-Arabiya TV is concerned,” writes the judge in her verdict, “he maintained that ‘we do not watch Al-Arabiya’, and in regard to Aljazeera he said that he and his team only listen to it ‘very rarely’, and again, the unavoidable conclusion that is that Marcus’s expert-witness testimony expert is skewed and in fact it is biased, especially when it became clear that on one hand it used quotations from insignificant newspapers, and on the other hand it has been established that the testimony ignored the existence of other newspapers and television networks that are very popular among the residents of the Palestinian Authority.

“Note that we are dealing with an attempt to prove a policy of incitement. It is reasonable to assume that if it is a policy, the PA leadership would make use of the most popular media – newspapers and television networks – to get its messages across. That is so because that’s obviously the way its messages would reach the largest and broadest audience. So the conclusion is that the plaintiffs did not prove the existence of a policy of incitement, though, as I already mentioned, they have proven conclusively the existence incitement in the Palestinian media, incitement which is often, as appears from the recording tendered here, nothing but nauseating slander.”


http://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
14. Judge was not confused, but I am pleased you are down for saying so.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:24 PM
Apr 2014

New low for you.

On edit, you only posted the link after you're called out on it..always trying to sell
your version first.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
19. Only you would attempt to sell a judges ruling as confused.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:32 PM
Apr 2014

I am done here..people can make up there own minds from the links.

Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #19)

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
24. Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:38 PM
Apr 2014

Derailing threads with deceptions about a judge's ruling all to divert attention from settler
violence...shameful.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
26. What's deceptive? The Judge also asked for evidence from PA media al-Fajr
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:53 PM
Apr 2014

The problem is al-Fajr hasn't been in publication since 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fajr

Judge Ganot later noted that “expert witness Marcus was asked about the Al-Fajr newspaper and responded by saying, ‘I am not an expert on Al-Fajr [ ... ] and I wonder, what expertise is required for reading and comprehending the articles?”

http://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/

This must be so embarassing for all the haters of PMW.

1. The Judge admitted that the PA incites through its media.
2. The Judge asked for more popular sources like al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya, which are not PA media sources.
3. The Judge asked for evidence from a PA media source that hasn't existed in 20 years.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
27. Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:59 PM
Apr 2014

I get it, you do not trust any Palestinian publications.

Check out B'Tselem on settler violence and stop derailing threads to avoid what settlers do.

But then again, you're a big fan of Itamar Marcus of..a settler living in the OPT.

He lost the case.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
30. Yeah, actually, they ARE
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:21 PM
Apr 2014

The movie's premise is pretty much entirely drawn from Wistritch's book, "A Lethal Obsession."

As for Dershowitz, his approach to the situation is that no matter what, Israel is always right. Blowing up population centers in Gaza City or Tyre? Israel is right. Imprisoning children? Israel is right. Torture of prisoners? israel is right. Live fire vs. people carrying signs? Israel is right. Forced evictions of Arab Israeli citizens? Israel is right. Sort of like you, though since he's a syndicated writer, he has to couch his bloodlust and bigotry in gentler terms, with more weasel word hedging.

I suppose you think Raphel Shore and Wayne Kopping were trying to make a "balanced" documentary, right? No, they selected assholes who hate Muslims and support eternal war against Palestine to support the film's thesis.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
32. Yours is similar to the canard that all criticism of Israel is antisemitic....
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:41 PM
Apr 2014

It's just that in your case any criticism of radical Islam or radical Islamists is racist and rightwing.

I'm curious now. Which critics of radical Islam do u find credible? None? They're all rightwing racists and bigots in your view?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
37. Funny, if not for that "canard" you would never have any argument to make
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 08:32 PM
Apr 2014

Remember, we all hate and loathe Jews if we don't call for flotillas to Tibet?

Who do I find credible? I dunno, I can't say I pay much attention to that particular "field of study," Shira. I figure there's two sorts - critics of religion in general, who are basically going to tell me what I already knew, or could have guessed easily enough... or people who are trying to veil their bigotry as public service announcements.

Surely you understand the concept of fig-leafing, Shira?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
28. "Why do u keep posting articles from such a vile site?"
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:03 PM
Apr 2014

...Asks a poster whose OP's are drawn purely from Gatestone Institute, The Tower, PalWatch, and the Algemeiner, and whose original content reads like it came off masada2000.

Best part is, you're not even being facetious, you think you have a legitimate complaint

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
38. I think it's ludicrous that you, of all people, are trying to criticize a source.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 08:36 PM
Apr 2014

One that, as has been ointed out to you, is far more credible than most of your own go-to choices, and is used as a source for other mainstream sources.



If you want to say there are creepy Maan editorials? Sure. There are creepy haaretz editorials, too. ever read the wall Street Journal's ed page? Good lord, it's like watching a Libertarian themed Japanese horror movie.

You've failed to address the situation in this news - as in, not op-ed - piece.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
10. Ms Palwatch, at it again I see. Say anything to avoid the OP of terrorist settlers, of which
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:14 PM
Apr 2014

Itamar Marcus supports..living in the OPT himself.


 

shira

(30,109 posts)
15. How do u know this story isn't as bogus as the one re: IDF pumping 10 bullets....
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:26 PM
Apr 2014

...into the feet of a Palestinian soccer player that the racists @ Maan recently fabricated?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113458740#post35

Amazing how 10 bullets to the feet heal so quickly these days, isn't it?

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
17. Because Elders of Zion blog is not a news source. Haaretz and other Isareli publications
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:29 PM
Apr 2014

trust Ma'an as a source for stories.

You know this but you will try and spread this nonsense, go ahead.

It say much more about you than it does about Ma'an as a publication.

I get it, you do not trust any Palestinian publications.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
21. Those pics show Palestinians who were shot did not get 10 bullets to the feet.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:33 PM
Apr 2014

The story was just racist incitement.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
23. Again, the OP, Settlers destroy 300 grape vines...399 incidents of settler violence in 2013.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:36 PM
Apr 2014

I get it, you do not trust any Palestinian publications.

Check out B'Tselem on settler violence and stop derailing threads to avoid what settlers do.

But then again, you're a big fan of Itamar Marcus

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
13. 300 grape vines destroyed by settlers, disgraceful. Itamar Marcus is associated with Palwatch
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 04:23 PM
Apr 2014

and lives in the OPT..settler himself. Also enables the Israeli propaganda machine against Palestinians.

I write this as too often this publication, Ma'an is lied about here and you'll see that when asked, they
do not have a Palestinian publication they trust...none.

He lost in court, Israeli judge found him to be not credible expert witness, that is because he
is a bigoted asshole who makes excuses for the Israeli government.

Judge dismisses credibility of Palestinian Media Watch testimony

http://972mag.com/judge-dismisses-credibility-of-palestinian-media-watch-testimony/78900/

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
29. This thread explains the reason why intelligent honest people support Israel & are against BDS
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:14 PM
Apr 2014

They see through the propaganda, lies, incitement, and bigotry aimed at the Jewish state.

It's why no elected Democrats support BDS, call Israel apartheid, etc.

People aren't stupid.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
31. This OP is about settler violence, all documented by HR groups...no lies.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:21 PM
Apr 2014
List of Topics, B'Tselem

Accountability

Administrative Detention
Area C
List background materials
Attacks on Israeli civilians by Palestinians
Beating and abuse
Demolition of houses as punishment
Demolition for alleged military purposes
Demonstrations

Deportation
Detainees and prisoners

East Jerusalem

Family separation
Gaza Strip

Hebron
Human shields
International Law

Intra-Palestinian violations
Jordan Valley
Planning and building

Restrictions on movement

Separation Barrier

Settlements

Settler violence: Lack of accountability
South Hebron Hills

Torture
Use of firearms
Water Crisis

Workers from the territories


http://www.btselem.org/list_of_topics

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
34. Ms Palwatch keeps on flailing at the facts presented at her.
Sat Apr 5, 2014, 05:44 PM
Apr 2014

It's not easy cheering for rotten expansionism and getting slapped down with facts.

Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #35)

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