Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumPHOTOS: Palestine Marathon promotes 'right to movement'
Under the theme, Right to Movement, some 3,200 runners criss-crossed the streets of the West Bank town of Bethlehem in the second annual Palestine Marathon.Some 3,200 runners competed in the second annual Palestine Marathon in the streets of the West Bank town of Bethlehem Friday. The races theme, Right to Movement, is based on Article 13 of the UN Human Rights Charter and highlights the many ways in which Palestinians movements are restricted: by the separation wall, checkpoints, roadblocks, and other aspects of the Israeli occupation. As in last years inaugural race, marathon runners had to complete two laps of the same route, as organizers were unable to find a single course of 42 uninterrupted kilometers under Palestinian Authority control.
According to BTselem, as of February there were 99 permanent checkpoints restricting the movement of Palestinians, including 59 internal checkpoints, located well within the West Bank. In addition, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) counted 256 surprise flying checkpoints in December 2013. Israel has also blocked Palestinian access to some of the main West Bank roads with 500-plus physical obstructions, such as dirt embankments, concrete blocks, iron gates and trenches. Such obstacles prevent vehicles from crossing even in emergencies, and restrict the movement of many pedestrians who may be physically unable to climb over or around them: the elderly, sick persons, pregnant women, and small children. Moreover, some 65 kilometers of roads in the West Bank are restricted for the sole, or practically sole, use of Israeli settlers. Palestinians are often barred from even crossing some of these roads with vehicles, thereby requiring them to get out of the vehicle, cross the road on foot, and find an alternative mode of transportation on the other side.
Another key case in point was Israels denial of permission for Palestinian Olympic runner Nader al-Masris to travel from his home in the Gaza Strip to compete in this years race. Reuters quoted an Israeli government official responsible for permits as saying: the marathon is supported by the Palestinian Authority and is tainted by political shades which delegitimize the State of Israel. The majority of the Gaza residents are routinely prohibited by the Israeli authorities from traveling to Jerusalem or the West Bank for any reason, with the primary exception of medical cases.
The Palestine Marathon comes just weeks after Palestinian activists protested the Jerusalem Marathon, which passed through parts of East Jerusalem, which is considered occupied Palestinian territory under international law. The Palestinian BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions) National Committee, called for a boycott of race sponsors New Balance and Crowne Plaza, saying that the Jerusalem Marathon is used to cover up Israels image around the world while acting as a smokescreen to its illegal annexation of and gradual ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from the occupied city. Activists waving Palestinian flags attempted to disrupt the race at various points, but were dispersed by Israeli police.
The Palestine Marathon saw little overt political tension, other than the occasional gesture or slogan shouted at a gun-toting Israeli soldier stationed in a watchtower atop the separation wall.
http://972mag.com/photos-palestine-marathon-promotes-right-to-movement/89578/
King_David
(14,851 posts)Was in West Bank not Gaza so maybe.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Women in Palestine achieved equal rights this one day.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Gaza marathon cancelled by UN after Hamas bans women from participating
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/05/gaza-marathon-cancelled-hamas-bans-women
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)approve of Abbas signing on to the UN treaties either, very telling. They don't need your disingenuous
nonsense...I recall all your authoritarian horse shit about who is and who is not entitled to a state.
King_David
(14,851 posts)They should not be allowed a state by ANYONE , they should not be admitted to ANY organization or be allowed ANY recognition up to or until their is 100% Human Rights for my Gay brothers and sisters and all women and Humans.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)It is interesting how you do not understand what it meant for the Palestinians
when Abbas signed those treaties..laughable really.
Human rights in the Palestinian territories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Palestinian_territories
King_David
(14,851 posts)Yes, he said, in answer to a question, I am under the radar as far as being Gay, or else I would be killed. Its extremely hard to find even a Bisexual person in Gaza. Its like looking for an oasis in Antarctica.I knew a lesbian couple but they left Gaza two years ago. Since then I lost contact with them. He already knows that two of his male Gay friends have been killed in Gaza, as well as fourteen more family friends and acquaintances. He is very upset. He is worried. He does try to mask his concerns with humor, but the gravity of the situation in Gaza City has become so dire, the deep fears and frustrations show in his letters.
http://ttthomas.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/to-be-gay-in-gaza-right-now/
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)How authoritarian of you...but convenient to meet your goal..no state.
King_David
(14,851 posts)That is a fundamental Human Right.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)of those treaties and what it means for human rights...NONE.
If you did you would not suggest he not sign, that is in and of itself the single
most telling nature of your true intentions...which is, how to deny the Palestinians
a state.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Gays are celebrating in Gaza City and Ramallah?
I musta missed that.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)state??
You have NO idea the significance of Abbas signing those treaties...none.
You miss a lot, that much I would agree with but then that would interfere with your goal, which is to deny
the Palestinians a viable state.
snip*It is disturbing that the Obama administration, which already has a record of resisting international accountability for Israeli rights abuses, would also oppose steps to adopt treaties requiring Palestinian authorities to uphold human rights, said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. The US should press both the Palestinians and the Israelis to better abide by international human rights standards.
Palestines adoption of human rights and laws-of-war treaties would not cause any change in Israels international legal obligations.
Abbas signed letters of accession to core human rights treaties including the International Covenants on Civil and Political Rights and on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the conventions on the rights of the child; the elimination of discrimination against women; and against torture, apartheid, and genocide. Abbas also signed requests for Palestine to accede to treaties on the laws of war, including the Hague Regulations of 1907, the four Geneva Conventions of 1949, and their first additional protocol.
The human rights treaties he signed would impose obligations on the Palestinian government to respect, protect, and fulfill the human rights of people under their authority and effective control. The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank was not eligible to sign human rights treaties but its officials had repeatedly pledged to uphold human rights norms. Human Rights Watch has documented serious abuses by Palestinian security forces, including torture, arbitrary arrest, and the suppression of free speech and assembly.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/04/05/us-stop-blocking-palestinian-rights
King_David
(14,851 posts)Can you link to gay rights in West Bank and Gaza please ?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And Netanyahu isn't even concerned with them.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And it isn't intended to. And you know it.
So your whole argument here is bogus.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Just like in the US, Israel, and every other country-right, I mean you wouldn't be applying some sort of double standard there would you?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Russia should be stripped of everything.
A country with this Russian type mentality towards Gays and even worse in Gaza should not be given any chance at all until they rectify their oppression towards Gay Human beings.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)your approach to advancing human rights.
Let us know if any of them comment on the audacity of your positions.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Hopefully Obama and others will agree to the importance of Gay rights in 2014.
I think Obama gets it, I saw what he said to Russia, although was disappointed there was no Soschi boycott.
But that does not mean these mistakes of overlooking oppression of Gays should be allowed to continue in Gaza and West Bank when now is a perfect opportunity to enforce such.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Then you'd be more stuck for a legitimate claim to denying the Palestinians a viable state
than you were previously.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Think one Human right trumps another?
Maybe in this group but nowhere else.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)idea why it is a step forward for Abbas to sign those treaties. You are in complete
opposite position of HRW..very telling about you.
Denying an entire people a viable state until they meet your terms is disingenuous on your part.
You can't even bring yourself to name one Palestinian publication you find reliable..so who the fuck do you
think you're kidding?
Did you organize and write on this website that the US should be stripped of its status
of being a state when they did not meet up to your standards?
Your position is absurd, and your goal is to deny people what is their right...that much is clear.
on edit for clarity.
King_David
(14,851 posts)And no matter how colorful your language or anger toward me is, I happen to think that as a progressive community ,anyone embracing anything less than equal rights for Gay Human Beings and trying to become a civilized state in 2014 ,should be denied that right, up until the moment they afford equal rights to everyone,including Gays.
You can cuss and curse and drop F-bombs all over the place ,but it will not change my mind that Gay rights are not up for negotiation.....no matter how angry you may get.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)around is obvious. Yea, I have a funny way of getting angry at someone who
is completely unaware of what he is talking about ( no understanding of those treaties
yet you sit there and proclaim Abbas should not sign..that is counter to ANY
logic regarding human rights.)
You are the last person to speak about harsh language..let me know and I will
post yours for you.
Just say the word.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Here is 'the word' you asked for,
Please post where I said what you claimed I did.
Specifically : ' you sit there and proclaim Abbas should not sign'
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Back peddling now? lol..you had no idea what those treaties involved.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Specifically : ' you sit there and proclaim Abbas should not sign'
Go for it... Show us all...
If you can.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)You are stuck with your absurd positions which are a means to deny an entire people
their right to a viable state.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Understood.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)That no one will see that you responded to my post #6 which places emphasis on those treaties?
You are hoping for a lot...good luck.
What is understood in this thread is how you had no understanding of those treaties..none.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I never said what you claimed .
LOL
That is what's clear...
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)are clear the Palestinians should not be allowed to join anything.
One would need to stretch pretty far to not see it.
Your positions are repugnant, and your ability to deny is pathetic.
King_David
(14,851 posts)We are hearing this on DU
That is tuly UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Your attempts to deny an entire people of their state is your position, not mine.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)provide us with proof if you answer in the affirmative
King_David
(14,851 posts)But we must assure Gay rights in any newly independent state.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but the occupation even though you admit it does not help LGBT Palestinians shouldn't end until the Palestinians meet standards you've set for them?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)The EU does not allow entry to any country not respecting Gay rights.
It's certainly not too much to ask anyone wanting to join the civilized world to end discrimination against Gays and refuse them entry if they don't .
Period.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)with those Israeli citizens enjoy, the end result of no recognition is continued occupation, so yes the occupation is quite germane to this
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)previous statements...it's time consuming it seems.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Are you stating the EU is supportive of your opinion that the Palestinians should be denied a viable state?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)a state?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)DU about my posts.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Or is it only Palestine you apply that to?
King_David
(14,851 posts)I'm not involved , my family is not involved there , or my friends , I don't have any involvement there and I'm not obsessed with it's people.
How's it going with those links you gonna post about things I never said?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)You should care about that. Because yr no more involved with them than you are with the Palestinian LGBT population. Also, yr not a woman, yet you decided to start going on about women's rights in Palestine.
How about going back to the post in question and responding there instead of spreading things all over the place? All you have to do is either confirm or deny and if it's deny then tomorrow night I'll be posting links to posts where you said you oppose Palestinian statehood and I'll watch you deny saying what you said. Fun times...
King_David
(14,851 posts)I'm gay ... We not hung up on gender identities ... We all equal .
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)And if you actually do give a shit about LGBT populations around the world, you'd at least be interested in finding out about other places where they don't have equal rights instead of fixating on Palestinians. There's a big, wide world out there that is far more than being all about you and only what you think directly affects you. Though I'm at a loss as to how not having equal rights in Palestine would affect you any more than not having equal rights in East Timor.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Just like MasterCard = priceless
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)albeit anti-Russian sentiment is a very easy bandwagon to jump on right now and on that thought - just who will strip Russia of "everything" and exactly what do you mean by "everything"?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Even an Olympic boycott never occurred.
But Gaza and West Bank are not too powerful.
Gay rights should be forced on them.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)nothing stopped Israel from boycotting the Winter Olympics
King_David
(14,851 posts)Explain
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Star Member King_David (6,704 posts)
22. Unfortunately Russia is too powerful,
Even an Olympic boycott never occurred.
But Gaza and West Bank are not too powerful.
Gay rights should be forced on them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=62045
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)gone down hill at rapid speed.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Moral of the story is people shouldn't rise to the bait and not let these sorts of threads be derailed...
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)meet his standards of equality which dramatically differs from his position on the US when he was not satisfied
with US policy for the LGBT community..as he has not indicated where on DU in the past he advocated for the
US to be, as he said, "stripped of everything". If in fact he advocated for such a thing, it would be interesting
to learn how anyone finds that as means to prosper equality.
His lack of knowledge of what the treaties involve, the purpose of which will enhance human rights for
the Palestinians..his opinions all rest in this thread. So I have no concern about his derailing the thread,
although I agree it was unfortunate as his purpose was to denigrate the marathon. His denial is humorous
and his attempts to now define himself as being misunderstood is typical.
His post#7, indicates lack of
Response to Jefferson23 (Reply #6)
Sun Apr 13, 2014, 03:09 PM
Star Member King_David (6,716 posts)
7. au contraire ,Palestinians very much do not my advice on human rights
They should not be allowed a state by ANYONE , they should not be admitted to ANY organization or be allowed ANY recognition up to or until their is 100% Human Rights for my Gay brothers and sisters and all women and Human
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=62030
Good to see you, Violet
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Having gone on about no new state should be allowed to be created unless it's got full equal rights for its LGBT population only applies to the Palestinians. Anywhere else, and it doesn't matter because advocating for their rights suddenly becomes 'I'm not obsessed with it's people'
I'm not involved , my family is not involved there , or my friends , I don't have any involvement there and I'm not obsessed with it's people.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=62110
Good to see you too, Jefferson! It's been a while
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)It has been awhile..hope you stick around more often.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Boy that would be fantastic for Human Rights and Gay rights and Gays would thrive and even live.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)on DU calling for the US to be stripped of everything?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And it's too late for Russia to cease being a country.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Because when you claim you want 100% human rights for all humans, yr posting history here at DU when it comes to Palestinians indicates otherwise. You oppose the Palestinian people having their own state and have stated that more than a few times here.
As a woman, I find it offensive that yr taking it upon yrself to use women as an excuse for yr opposition to Palestinian human rights...
King_David
(14,851 posts)You take offense at Gay rights advocacy ?
Meh
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Because if you are denying it, I will go and find a whole bunch of posts from you where you state yr opposition to a Palestinian state. If yr not denying it, I don't see why I'd need to go off finding any post?
Even though it's a bizarre question, I'll answer it the same way I've always answered it in the past. No, of course I don't oppose advocacy for gay rights, no more than as a feminist I oppose fighting for women's rights. What I do oppose is you supporting Palestinians (reminder, they're human beings too) not having human rights and you opposing a Palestinian state.
btw, why is it that any OP that's got something positive about the Palestinians gets hijacked? It's kind of pathetic...
King_David
(14,851 posts)Yes go ahead and find those links please -- I can not be bullied as Oberliner once told you .
Go for it... I'm waiting for your links where I oppose a Palestinian state ( and not where I deny a State that oppresses Gays please )
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Are you denying you've posted opposing a Palestinian state? A simple yes or no will do.
And as you've been told many times before, asking you a question isn't bullying. It's what people do on discussion forums, and you do it yrself.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You imagine ( that's kind wording) I said.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)Yr starting to get quite nasty. How about toning down the nasty because I feel like I'm being harangued right now...
King_David
(14,851 posts)Back up your claims to what you imagine (benign choice of words) I have said.
Let's all see if it's true what your claiming for if it's fabrication .
Link it up
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)And why do you start replying multiple times to my one post with the same thing? It's really coming across as yr attempting to be intimidating.
Besides, you actually said you oppose a Palestinian state in this very thread. Where you've said it in the past was in threads leading up to and after the UN vote on Palestinian statehood. I can go find those but the search thing is crap, and I'm wondering whether it's worth even trying as you'll sit there and deny you said it even when it's right in front of you...
King_David
(14,851 posts)Ha ha ha ha
Was another fabrication ( another benign word ) .. Cos I said no such thing.
Bye bye
King_David
(14,851 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And you also know that you can't fight oppression WITH oppression. It is impossiblefor the Occupation to cause social change(needed as it is)in Palestine. Your argument in that post as absurd as it would have been for white defenders of Jim Crow to use sexism and homophobia in the black community to justify whites-only restrooms, the poll tax, and lynchings.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)It helps not only to look at the photos in the OP, but to read the first lines of the article. Then you'd know that the marathon was held in the West Bank and has fuck all to do with Hamas.
King_David
(14,851 posts)You do know this ?
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)The PA controls the West Bank. Bethlehem's in the West Bank.
Next time try reading at least the first sentence of the OP before hitting the reply button.
King_David
(14,851 posts)I don't respond or rise to the bully attempts .
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)You appear not only to not have looked at the photos in the OP, but didn't even read the first few sentences of it. It really helps before posting in a thread to read at least the first sentence of the OP yr going to be discussing. That way you can stay on topic and not go off on tangents that have nothing to do with what the OP was about.
I hope that wasn't considered bullying to point that out or to even have dared to reply to you...
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Palestinians aren't living under occupation because the West Bank isn't feminist enough. And the occupation would still go on even if Palestine was just as socially liberal as Israel claims to be or even if it were more so(as it might become at some point-Palestinians aren't any more intrinsically incapable of changing their society than anyone else is) Netanyahu doesn't care about Palestinian women OR Palestinian LGBTQ people(and Palestinian women and gays have never regarded the IDF as their protectors. The status of women and gay people in Palestine is not a justification for the Occupation, and there's no way the Occupation can cause the liberation of either of those groups.
So spare us the fauxrage about Palestinian sexism and homophobia. You yourself only show "concern" about that because you see it as a way to defend the indefensible...the preservation of the status quo in the West Bank and the prevention of the creation of what has to be created in order for their to be peace...a Palestinian state made up of the West Bank and Gaza.
Violet_Crumble
(35,961 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Especially one that has a history of banning women is not besides the point at all.
As for the rest of the post I never had time to read it ... Maybe later if I get time .
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's not the place of defenders of the Occupation to cluck their tongues about who is allowed to participate in that protest. And the only reason you brought it up was to derail the thread with a side issue.