Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumPoll finds Israelis don't believe charges of excessive force
Less than four percent of Israeli Jews accept accusations from the international community that the IDF has used excessive firepower in the Gaza Strip during Operation Protective Edge, according to the monthly Peace Index poll sponsored by the Israel Democracy Institute and Tel Aviv University.
The poll was conducted in three stages during the operation. On July 14, 246 Israeli adults were surveyed, 185 on July 16 to 17, and 216 on July 23.
In none of the stages of polling did more than 3.8% say the IDF used excessive force. The balance believed that the IDF used an appropriate level of firepower (37-60%) or insufficient firepower (33-57%).
Over the course of the surveys, Israeli Jewish public opinion has been consistently nearly unanimous in its definition of Operation Protective Edge as justified - an average of 95% over the course of the three surveys.
http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Poll-Over-96-percent-of-Israeli-Jews-do-not-believe-the-IDF-is-using-excessive-force-in-Gaza-369283
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)violence asking if the violence is proportional is not tainted?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:13 PM - Edit history (1)
is a little creepy.
Well, every society has to have their goon squad: ready to stand tall and cheer as their leaders kill the 'enemy' and their children in cold blood.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)of Palestinians at times like this which is to say not much at all
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)While I watched with horror what GW Bush was doing to the Iraqi people, and someone
polled me about that..I don't think my response would have been too thoughtful at that
moment in time.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)B'Tselem petitions Israels High Court to oblige Israel Broadcasting Authority to broadcast names of Gazan children killed
Published:
29 Jul 2014
Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem petitioned the High Court of Justice (HCJ) yesterday, 28 July 2014, seeking to oblige the Israel Broadcasting Authority (IBA) to air radio spots produced by BTselem which incorporate the names of a few of the more than 200 Palestinian children killed in Gaza in Operation Protective Edge. The IBA refused to air the radio spots on the grounds of being controversial, not balanced, and possibly provoking public controversy over the military operation.
http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20140729_children_name_campaign_petition
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Never have, never will.
Dick Cheney would be a moderate there.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Israel has killed hundreds of children in Gaza, a fact that doesn't seem to bother 95% of Israelis and Israel's supporters in the US. The only thing that bothers them is when people state the plain fact that Israel killed those children.
Then sophistry like "why does Hamas kill those children" comes from those folks, ignoring that as a matter of physics and medical science and logic that IDF bombs are the cause of death.
The plain fact is that dead Palestinian children aren't a concern to most Israelis.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Why do you even try?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that kill the children?
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)I am so sick of Hamas' kiddie snuff porn and the consumers who enable them.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because of the underlying tragedy.
Thx for confirming.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)You obviously disagree.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)are trauma caused by IDF ordinance exploding in close proximity to the children.
Note: this question concerns the physics and medical science of how they die, not the motives or strategy or causes of those bombs being dropped.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)No concern with "the motives or strategy or causes of those bombs being dropped."
I can understand why you want to deny the causes.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)WHO CHOOSES TO KEEP IT GOING BY CONTINUING TO SHOOT ROCKETS AT CIVILIANS AND REFUSING EVERY CEASE FIRE?
I'll be waiting for your answers before replying to anything else from you, but I won't be holding my breath.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Hamas has a depraved lack of regard for any life, Palestinian or otherwise. Their goal very well may be to goad Israel into killing children.
That said, Israel has a peculiar interest in playing Hamas's game while refusing to do anything to support Palestinian moderates, particularly Israel refuses to give Palestinians any reason to think negotiations are relevant.
FBaggins
(26,760 posts)... Hamas knows how to get bombs to fall on Palestinian children and does so intentionally.
For the next one - the "sides" are Hamas / Israel
... Only one side benefits from the death of Palestinian children - and it isn't Israel.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)too close to civilian concentrations. This does not give Israel a free pass to avoid its duty to minimize civilian casualties.
FBaggins
(26,760 posts)Unfortunately... we're not in a position to judge how well they're performing that duty to minimize civilian casualties.
If rockets are fired from a schoolyard or hospital... you are faced with either potential civilian casualties, or soon every rocket will be launched from such points. What does "minimizing" call for in such circumstances and how are we to judge the success/failure of such attempts from half a world away?
We also know, for instance, that Gaza casualty figures come almost exclusively from the Gazan Health Ministry... which counts everyone not in a military uniform as a civilian casualty. Historically, many Hamas terrorists have not worn uniforms, and this standard gives them every reason to avoid them. And, of course, the Health Ministry is part of Hamas (who benefits politically from every civilian death, but not at all from the death of a Hamas terrorist) - So how should I read claims tha 80% of the casualties in Gaza have been civilians?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Gaza is going to be uninhabitable by the time Israel is done--no power, no water treatment, medical infrastructure, etc.
Purpose of that?
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)FBaggins
(26,760 posts)Purpose of that?
Hamas' purpose is very likely to improve their standing in world opinion. Israel's purpose in letting Hamas goad them into doing that? I don't know... presumably to reduce Hamas' ability to fight.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)It was not a pretzel
(1,327 posts)So if the pictures of dead Arab kids aren't shown then it didn't happen?
On another day you could be a holocaust denier.
Your defence of the indefensible and justification for babykillers is sickening.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)Busy creating generations of new enemies, at home and abroad.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)civilian casualty rate, are unquestionably immoral. If you think otherwise, I suggest you check your moral compass.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)genocide. I think you must be confusing them with ISRAEL.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)I think you must be confusing me for someone who doesn't know the facts.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)Hamas may talk about wanting to exterminate an entire population. Israel not only talks about wanting to exterminate its Palestinian population -- it's trying to accomplish that with bombs.
Even a cursory look at the casualty figures on both sides, whether for this short term conflict or over the longer term, leaves no doubt that the only country here engaged in trying to commit genocide is ISRAEL.
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)I think you've let your hate get the better of you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)Every.
Goddamn.
Time.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)more than 200 of them children, being shot like fish in a barrel.
Maybe you get off on that. I sure as fuck don't.
King_David
(14,851 posts)They force the IDF to stop the rockets , they hide among civilians and in un schools , they instruct people not to evacuate , they turned down the Egyptian cease fire out of hand and yesterday they themselves bombed a Palestinian hospital...
Hamas is responsible for this misery 100%
stranger81
(2,345 posts)The rest of us can see what's actually happening on the ground. Only one side is doing the slaughtering here, and it's Israel. It could choose to stop today, but it won't. There are still more children who need to die.
King_David
(14,851 posts)This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Accusing someone of supporting genocide because they oppose the killing of children. Psychotic neocon agitprop.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:26 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Psychotic, maybe -- I fully disagree with this poster's angle, however this post is not a hide-able offense here in the land of moral ambiguity and no principles whatsoever. Used a hypothetical, not a personal attack. Vote to leave despite my misgivings.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is all part and parcel of the I/P debate.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not only is the poster correct the alert is bogus and should be looked into.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: These two are having a heated discussion and both giving as well as they get. Nothing over the top here.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
stranger81
(2,345 posts)Genocide should be a topic of discussion in I/P. It's happening, so we should be talking about it. We should be making those who support it own it.