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R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 11:20 AM Aug 2014

Moshe Feiglin’s vision of liberating Gaza by driving Palestinians into the Sinai

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/08/feiglins-liberating-palestinians.html

Moshe Feiglin (b. Haifa ’62) is an Israeli politician on the rise. Elected as a member of the Knesset only in January 2013, today he already serves as deputy speaker of the Knesset. In May, a poll listed him has the fourth most popular member of Likud.

Over the past month Israel bombed countless targets in Gaza, killed more than 1,800 Palestinians (mostly civilians), wounded in excess of 9,000, destroyed in excess of 10,000 homes, the strip’s only power plant, hospitals, schools, and other infrastructure, and lost 64 Israelis in the process (Haaretz’s tally). The onslaught lit up the sky to outer space.

If this bombardment speaks a language, it speaks the language of Moshe Feiglin.

Feiglin is a deeply-religious person. All of his education, it would appear, has been religious. David Remnick interviewed him for his New Yorker profile, The Party Faithful, published in January 2013, right before his entry into the Knesset. Feiglin had just attended the Third Conference for the Application of Israeli Sovereignty over Judea and Samaria (aka the West Bank). Many members of Knesset were in attendance, “including Likud’s Ze’ev Elkin, who declared that it was time for Israel to ‘stop conceding and go on the offensive, step by step.’ All the speeches favored some form of annexation; the question was how much and how soon,” Remnick reported. Feiglin advocated for Israel to pay Palestinians to leave: “Why not spend … money … and permanently rid yourself of the problem?”
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Moshe Feiglin’s vision of liberating Gaza by driving Palestinians into the Sinai (Original Post) R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2014 OP
Mondoweiss goes out of its way to get this crap out there oberliner Aug 2014 #1
Why is it crap? atreides1 Aug 2014 #3
The content of Feiglin's article is crap oberliner Aug 2014 #4
Your point is? n/t Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #5
Right wing idiots are right wing idiots oberliner Aug 2014 #10
No doubt you'll drop a line to EarlG and tell him to quit with the "image of the day" callouts Scootaloo Aug 2014 #16
We have horrible people in our congress, and everyone should be aware of what their Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #18
I believe ober's point is... R. Daneel Olivaw Aug 2014 #21
there is a reason sabbat hunter Aug 2014 #6
What party is the leading party in Israel? Scootaloo Aug 2014 #9
Good question oberliner Aug 2014 #12
I think Israel has Hamas covered, as does the mainstream US press as well. Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #23
I disagree oberliner.... Israeli Aug 2014 #25
its accurate . Israeli Aug 2014 #15
Mondoweiss King_David Aug 2014 #8
Likud. Also nuff said Scootaloo Aug 2014 #11
Nope King_David Aug 2014 #13
oh, of COURSE you don't Dave. Scootaloo Aug 2014 #14
do you know who Yossi Sarid is Scoot ? Israeli Aug 2014 #17
Not familair, but thanks for the article Scootaloo Aug 2014 #19
Meretz Scoot .... Israeli Aug 2014 #24
Nope , King_David Aug 2014 #20
If you're offring for the job, know that I only pay in childish abuses Scootaloo Aug 2014 #22
His name, which I think is safe to say was not one most people were aware of? I think that Jefferson23 Aug 2014 #2
Feiglin is just making public the strategy of the Israeli right. BillZBubb Aug 2014 #7
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
1. Mondoweiss goes out of its way to get this crap out there
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 11:22 AM
Aug 2014

Would that they spent as much time reprinting op-eds from more liberally-minded Israeli writers (of which there are many).

Edit to add: This piece also spreads the idea that he is "the deputy speaker of the knesset" when he is one of ten - including Ahmed Tibi.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
4. The content of Feiglin's article is crap
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 11:32 AM
Aug 2014

It represents the worst of the extreme right-wing faction of the right-wing Likud party.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
10. Right wing idiots are right wing idiots
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:22 PM
Aug 2014

Every country has them in their legislature. We certainly have our share in the US Congress.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
18. We have horrible people in our congress, and everyone should be aware of what their
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:09 PM
Aug 2014

agenda is..so what is the objection to this OP? What percentage of Americans
do you think are aware of this individual?

sabbat hunter

(6,831 posts)
6. there is a reason
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 12:08 PM
Aug 2014

why Feiglin is not a member of the cabinet, his comments like the one referenced in the OP are part of the reason (the other part is how he challenges Bibi for leadership)

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. What party is the leading party in Israel?
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:20 PM
Aug 2014

(Despite a certain poster's election predictions, it's not hatnuah...)

Wake me when you complain about hamas' extremism being exposed, oberliner.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
12. Good question
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:29 PM
Aug 2014

Last election it was the merger of Likud and Yisrael Beitenu that carried the most seats. Not sure which of those two parties is more popular.

On it's own Yesh Atid got 18 seats, so maybe Lapid's party is the most popular?

Hamas extremism should definitely be exposed - has Mondoweiss gotten on that yet?

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
23. I think Israel has Hamas covered, as does the mainstream US press as well.
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:24 PM
Aug 2014

As far as I know, no one from Mondoweiss, nor Chomsky nor anyone like him have ever
been invited to speak on the subject on any American msm outlet. Israel will not even
allow Chomsky in their country.

No shortage of talking heads for Israel's massacre this past Sunday morning that I noticed.


Covering Hamas and Palestinian society: A response to Peter Beinart

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/03/covering-palestinian-response.html

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
25. I disagree oberliner....
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:44 PM
Aug 2014

Personaly I think Moshe (“Bogie”) Ya’alon does .....

The Bogie Horror Show

22/08/09

MY FIRST thought was: Good God, this man was responsible for the lives of our soldiers!

The second thought was: What’s the big surprise? You always knew what kind of person he was! After all, during his years as the army’s Chief of Staff he quietly supported the setting up of “illegal” settlement outposts all over the West Bank!

The third thought: And this person is now Vice Prime Minister and a member of the “Sextet” – the six ministers who constitute the real government of Israel.

THE OCCASION for these frightening thoughts was the participation of Moshe (“Bogie”) Ya’alon in a gathering of the Jewish Leadership Faction. “Peace Now is a virus,” he said there. And not only they. “All the media” are also a virus. They influence the public discourse “in a distorted manner, a lying manner”. The virus also includes “the elite” in general.

In addition, the “politicians” are to blame. “Every time the politicians bring in the dove of peace, we, the army, have to clean up after it.”

His summing up: “The Jews have a right to settle in any place throughout Eretz Israel.” And if this upsets the Americans, Ya’alon has a ready answer: “I am not afraid of the Americans!”

All this was said a few days after Ya’alon paid a well publicized visit to the occupied territories, accompanied by Shas leader Eli Yishai and several other ministers of the extreme Right. This band visited the settlement outposts, which the Israeli government long ago promised the Americans to dismantle, and expressed total opposition to their evacuation. They concluded their visit in Homesh, the West Bank settlement evacuated by Ariel Sharon in the course of the “disengagement”. Ya’alon demanded the resettlement of the place.

THESE TONES come together in a frightening melody, a tune we know all too well. It is anthem of fascism.


First: the term “elite”. In the jargon of the Israeli extreme Right, this includes everybody they hate: the intellectuals, the universities, the liberal politicians, the Supreme Court, the media.

The term is rooted in the Latin verb “eligere”, to pick out, meaning the best, the select. Since this is an undefined body, the term can be applied to different targets. When the demagogues address the Oriental Jewish masses, “the elite” clearly consists of the Ashkenazis who rule the country. When addressing the religious community, “the elite” consist of the secular, the atheist, who are strangers to Jewish Tradition. When addressing the Russian immigrants, “the elite” consists of the old established Israelis, the native born, who obstruct the path of the new immigrants.

When one bundles all these together, there emerges a picture of “them” and “us”. “Them” – the handful of arrogant old-timers, who occupy all the key positions in the state, and “us” – the simple, honest people, the patriots, the keepers of tradition, the discriminated against, the oppressed. Every fascist group in the world entertains such a view of “the elite”.

(Never mind that Ya’alon, like most of the other demagogues, himself belongs to the elite. He was born in the country, an Ashkenazi of Ukrainian descent. His original name was Smilansky. He is still officially a member of an “elitist” kibbutz and belongs to the super-privileged senior officers’ corps.)
Second: The traitors. There is an enemy within. This is no less dangerous than the foreign enemy, indeed, much more dangerous. When Ya’alon speaks about Peace Now, he means all the peace camp, the liberal and secular section of society. That is the Fifth Column, the Trojan horse within the walls. They have to be eliminated, before one can turn to fight the foreign foe.


Third: The “politicians”. The demagogues are, of course, themselves politicians, but they exclude themselves here. Ya’alon paints a picture of “the politicians” who bring in a disgusting peace dove, whose excrement the army has to clean up.

The knavish, scheming, cowardly politicians on the one side, the clean-cut, heroic, loyal army on the other – that is a very familiar picture. The best known example was current in Germany after World War I. The “knife in the back” legend was a stepping stone to power for Adolf Hitler: the German army stood up to the enemy and had victory in its sights, when “the politicians”, the Jews, the socialists and the other “November criminals” stuck a knife in the back of the heroic fighters.

The peace dove leaves its droppings and the soldiers are compelled to clean up the filth of peace.

And also: “All the media”. That is one of the marks of fascism in Israel and throughout the world. The media are always “leftist”, “anti-national”, they are the “hostile media”. The journalists and broadcasters are a secret league of Israel-bashers, who spread lies and distort reality in order to undermine national morale, defame the army, besmirch our national values and give comfort to the enemy.

Reality is, of course, very, very different. The Israeli media slavishly repeat the official propaganda in all national and security matters. They are conformist to a high degree and mobilized from wall to wall. There is not a single leftist newspaper in the country. Most political correspondents repeat like parrots the statements of “official sources”; almost all the correspondents for Arab affairs are former army intelligence officers; and almost all military correspondents serve as unofficial army spokesmen. In the news pages and news programs, right-wing terminology reigns supreme. But because in less important matters the media criticize the government, as they are duty-bound to do in a democratic society, it is easy to portray them as “leftist” and subversive. The same is true for academia.

And finally: The “virus”. The description of political opponents as infectious agents or disgusting vermin is one of the most distinguishing features of the extreme Right. It is sufficient to remember Dr. Joseph Goebbels’ film “The Eternal Jew”, in which the Jews were shown as rats spreading disease.


If one puts all these features together - the hatred of “the elite”, the glorification of the army, the contempt for “the politicians”, the demonization of the peace camp, the incitement against the media – it’s the ugly face of fascism that emerges. Here in Israel and all over the world.

NO LESS important are the location and the company.

Ya’alon spoke at a gathering of the “Jewish Leadership Faction”. This is a group of ultra-ultra rightists, who entered the Likud with the declared objective of conquering it from within. It is headed by one Moshe Feiglin, hence its followers are usually called “the Feiglins”.

On the eve of the last elections, Binyamin Netanyahu made an all-out effort, using kosher and not-so-kosher means, to remove Feiglin from the Likud’s list of candidates. He was determined to avoid the Likud being presented as an extreme-Right party. The Likud’s main competitor, Kadima, defined itself as a center or moderate-rightist party and tried very hard to push Netanyahu to the right. Netanyahu thought that by driving the Feiglins out he could blunt this attack.

The question is whether this was his only aim. If so, why did he raise Benny Begin, a person who personifies the far-right, into a conspicuous place on the list? And why did he enlist and embrace Moshe Ya’alon, who was already known as a person of extreme rightist views? That embrace was very costly, since in the end Kadima, against all expectations, won one seat more than the Likud.

But Netanyahu, a born politician, had more than one objective in mind. He was afraid that Feiglin would one day threaten his hold on the Likud leadership. To forestall this possibility, he denied Feiglin a seat in the Knesset.


And here comes Ya’alon, Netanyahu’s pampered protégé, and joins Feiglin of all people. As the Hebrew saying goes, the swallow went to visit the crow. But it is not quite clear who is the swallow and who the crow. Is Feiglin using Ya’alon – or is Ya’alon intending to use Feiglin in order to position himself as the leader of a big extreme-Right camp?

ONE SHOULD also pay attention to Ya’alon’s declaration that “I am not afraid of the Americans”. The Americans demand the freezing of the settlements? To hell with them! Who do they think they are? What, these Goyim are ordering us around? Barack Obama wants to tell us where we can settle and where we can’t?


That is another feature of the emerging Israeli fascism: the readiness to engage in an open confrontation with the United States, and especially with President Obama. Already an Israeli campaign against “Barack Saddam Hussein”, the New Hitler, is in full swing. The American Right and the Israeli Right easily find a common language. An Israeli woman in the US is heading the well publicized effort to prove that Obama was not born in the US, that his father never was a US citizen, and that he should therefore be driven out of the White House.

The whole thing borders on madness. Israel is dependent on the US for practically everything: economic assistance, arms, intelligence cooperation, diplomatic support like the veto in the Security Council. Netanyahu is trying to avoid a confrontation by using every trick of deceit and diversion. And here come Ya’alon & Co. and call for an open revolt against the USA!

There is method in this madness. The Israeli education system glorifies the Zealots, who some 1940 years ago declared war on the Roman Empire. The Zealots became the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine and launched a revolt that had no chance at all of succeeding. The rebels were defeated, Jerusalem was destroyed, the Temple was burned to the ground.

THE BOGIE HORROR SHOW has wider ramifications.

It presents a picture of a mad group of extremists challenging the moderate, responsible Netanyahu. Netanyahu signals to Obama and his people: Help! If you pressure me on the freezing of the settlements and the dismantling of the outposts, it will be the end of me! My government will fall, and you will have to deal with the crazies!

That would be more convincing, if Netanyahu had used his legal prerogative and dismissed Ya’alon from the government, even though that represents a political risk. Instead, “Bibi” summoned “Bogie”, like a headmaster who summons a boy and orders him to write a hundred times “I shall be a good boy”. So Ya’alon remains Vice Prime Minister, Minister in Charge of Strategic Affairs and a member of the governing Sextet of Ministers (the others being Avigdor Lieberman, Benny Begin, Eli Yishai, Dan Meridor and Binyamin Netanyahu himself.)


This being so, Netanyahu cannot evade responsibility for everything Ya’alon does and says.

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1250978291/

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
11. Likud. Also nuff said
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:22 PM
Aug 2014

Actually, no, not "nuff said."

Can you provide me with a link where other members of hte party, or the people of Israel, are calling for Feiglin's resignation over these remarks? Thanks in advance.

King_David

(14,851 posts)
13. Nope
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:31 PM
Aug 2014

Certainly not defending Likud nor Feiglin.

Doesn't take away from Mondoweiss being a biased joke of a website where some wannabe "leader " of the Palestinians, Alex Kane (who's not even Israeli Palestinian Jewish or Muslim or Arab) sat on his comfy couch and encouraged Gazans to keep "fighting" and reject the Egyptian ceasefire ( as if he's anything important besides being a minor observer with no horse in the race)

Same kinda deal as Greta Berlin actually who joined the cause as it turns out because of her dislike for Jews.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
14. oh, of COURSE you don't Dave.
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 01:58 PM
Aug 2014

Any links to the people of Israel exhibiting similar distaste and calling for Feiglin's resignation?

Israeli

(4,151 posts)
17. do you know who Yossi Sarid is Scoot ?
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:09 PM
Aug 2014
Yossi Sarid / Feiglin, his cronies are fascists by any definition

Dec. 10, 2008

Each list of candidates is tinted with its own characteristic hue. Sometimes, one drop is enough to paint a whole list. Likud's list offers quite a few rotten drops, and with each drop the cup overflows.

The list's color is as brown now as that brown house in Hebron. Likud's official spokespeople did try to console and be consoled yesterday, when they said that the devil isn't all that bad now that it's been pushed down to number 20 on the list. But full revulsion is better than partial consolation in this case.

Moshe Feiglin has been described as a radical rightist but that's not his main problem - which has now become the Likud's problem and our problem. In certain respects, he's less legitimate than Meir Kahane and far less so than Rehavam Ze'evi, the man who Benny Begin once defined as "a moral infection." Those were the days in old Jerusalem.

Sometimes, one wonders how what began as an ignominy deteriorates into abysmal lows. This paper published an interview with Feiglin from 1995, conducted by Ada Oshpiz. "When he reads about Hitler, it is with astonishment," the reporter wrote.

In describing Adolf Hitler, Feiglin is quoted to have told her, "Hitler was an unparalleled military genius. Nazism promoted Germany from a low to a fantastic physical and ideological status. The ragged, trashy youth body turned into a neat and orderly part of society and Germany received an exemplary regime, a proper justice system and public order. Hitler savored good music. He would paint. This was no bunch of thugs. They merely used thugs and homosexuals."

The time has come to break free from the shackles of politically correct speech and call these people - Feiglin and his cronies - by their explicit name. They are not "radicals" but fascists by any acceptable definition. And had they not been born - through no fault of their own - to Jewish mothers, they would have been damn anti-Semites to boot.

"There can be no doubt that Judaism is racist in some sense," Feiglin went on to say in that interview. "And when they asserted at the United Nations that Zionism was racist, I did not find much reason to protest. The people who take racism to mean a distinction between races - and this is a very primitive distinction - must argue that Zionism is racist."

Later in the interview, Feiglin addressed the Palestinians. "There is no Palestinian nation. There is only an Arab-speaking public which has suddenly identified itself as a people, a negative of the Zionist movement, parasites. The fact that they hadn't done so earlier only serves to prove how inferior they are. The Africans have no nations either. Only Zulus, Tutsis."

One is left to wonder under which tribe Feiglin classifies the Obama household.

Not only are Feiglin's people radicals and fascists, but also the bearers of severe personal disturbances, which hide behind a layer of patriotic make-up, under the camouflage of the Jewish faith.

If the Knesset is a temple, then Feiglin is the idol. A Knesset where Feiglin presides is an impure Knesset.


Now all of Jabotinsky's distinct disciples - Begin, Dan Meridor, Reuven Rivlin - will preside alongside Feiglin. They will all lend force to one another, and then they will come to us to explain that the Greater Land of Israel is bought with pain and prohibitions - their own pain.

For Zion's sake they will rush, and for Jerusalem they will fall silent and still - at least until the day of the election. And then they will complain to the whole world about the tie-wearing skinheads infiltrating parliaments and cabinets, whereas back in Jerusalem, even the skull cap can't hide the close shave.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/yossi-sarid-feiglin-his-cronies-are-fascists-by-any-definition-1.259197
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
19. Not familair, but thanks for the article
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:13 PM
Aug 2014

Granted it's from 2008, which kinda underlines what I'm saying...

So reading this, Feiglin's more or less just a foundational Revisionist Zionist?

King_David

(14,851 posts)
20. Nope ,
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:16 PM
Aug 2014

You don't have search capabilities?
Maybe you need an assistant to help with your DU posting ?

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
22. If you're offring for the job, know that I only pay in childish abuses
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 02:18 PM
Aug 2014

Now go and get me my coffee, boogerhead!

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
2. His name, which I think is safe to say was not one most people were aware of? I think that
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 11:24 AM
Aug 2014

might be changing..he might become quite infamous.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
7. Feiglin is just making public the strategy of the Israeli right.
Wed Aug 6, 2014, 12:32 PM
Aug 2014

Other rightists may differ from him on the tactics, but the strategy is always the same: annex the valuable portions of the West Bank.

Likudniks generally favor the slow motion ethnic cleansing approach, where they goad the Palestinians into violence, then use that pretext to grab more land and push the Palestinians out. Impatient righties like Feiglin want to move faster.

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