Who had sovereignty of the territory before Israel obtained it after winning 2 wars that were caused by arab and palestinian invasion? Oh yes, Jordan was the sovereign. In fact, in no time in history have palestinians had sovereignty over these territories.

Israel took the West Bank land by force. It isn't theirs. The people who occupied the land when the Israelis took it were Palestinians who happened to be under the rule of Jordan. The Jordanians want the Palestinians who lived on the land to own it, not the Israelis.

No amount of Israeli propaganda and hand-waving is going to change that.

Palestinian invasion? You mean the Palestinian invasion of...Palestine?



Jordan. And then prior to that, Britain.

During the mandatory years, citizens of Palestine were regarded as British subjects, essentially having the same status as people in Hong Kong or St Helena. They were issued with passports like this one:-



Quite an enlightened time, at least compared with the Israeli occupation.

There are many people that still live in modern-day colonies - the French for example still look after Tahiti and Mauritius and a few other places. But the fact that Tahiti is a French colony does not mean that other countries are free to militarily occupy that territory and steal land from its current inhabitants.

In other words, land theft is land theft, no matter where you live.

Quite simple, isn't it?

Really just so blatantly disgusting.

we finally agree on something .... so tell me something Shaktimaan ...when are you American Democrat Zionists going to do something ??

Grabbing and spitting: Israel's intolerable display of arrogance

The Israeli government is not allowed to jeopardize the country’s security and international standing merely to appease its most extreme members.

Haaretz Editorial

The state’s appropriation of some 4,000 dunams (1,000 acres) of land in the Gush Etzion area south of Jerusalem has mitigated the relatively mild international attitude toward Israel during Operation Protective Edge. The government’s assumption that its war on terror was consistent with the wishes of the West and the Arab countries, as expressed in their criticism of Hamas, and the prime minister’s hints about a window of opportunity to build a new diplomatic horizon, have collapsed with this stupid move.

The United States administration was furious, as expected, and the State Department demanded that Israel retract the decision. European governments unanimously condemned the seizure, and a European diplomat described it as poking Israel’s friends in the eyes.

The land appropriation, which is aimed at creating a contiguous swath of territory between Israel and Gush Etzion, puts Israel, not for the first time, in the center of the dartboard of the international community, which is having a hard time accepting the potshots Israel keeps taking at the chances for diplomatic talks.

This community, upon which Israel’s economy depends and on which Israel relies for military and diplomatic support, is already starting to impose sanctions on Israel as part of its efforts to advance the diplomatic process.

Moreover, Operation Protective Edge, which resulted in the tragic killing of innocent people, including hundreds of children, is liable to land Israel before an international tribunal, which will seek not just to investigate the conduct of the Israeli military, but also to punish it. Israel will be forced to enlist all possible support to convince others that the war was justified. It is hard to imagine that even friendly countries will hasten to defend Israel after the latter has spat in their faces.

All this is the result of the government’s confused notion that it can conduct policy in two parallel worlds that have no connection between them – one in which you can seize lands and settle them undisturbed, and the other in which the war on terror obligates the world to support Israel. This is an intolerable display of arrogance and impudence, and its price is liable to be catastrophic.

The Israeli government is not allowed to jeopardize the country’s security and international standing merely to appease its most extreme members. Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman’s argument that under any agreement Gush Etzion will anyway be part of the State of Israel, and therefore Israel can now appropriate lands there, is a false argument. A government that is frustrating any attempt at a diplomatic agreement can’t invoke such an agreement as if it was already signed. Such a policy makes Israel a victim of itself.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613989

You don't actually believe hat they are serious when they cluck their tongues at such outrage, do you?

It's theater meant to give them plausible deniability later when they need it.

Because we all obviously tailor our posts according to our collective concern for what you think about us. God forbid you might consider the possibility that you MIGHT not have quite as all-encompassing a grasp on what an individual's views, based on nothing more than a collection of message board posts to go on.

Don't mistake my criticism of your over-the-top hyperbole and simplistic worldview for a pro-Israel mirror image of your own anti-Zionist ideology.

I am against Israeli colonists. Are you?

I am against Israeli occupation. Are you?

I am against Israeli apartheid. Are you?

I am against human rights abuses. Are you?

I am against murder, especially of but not only, children: seeing how they are more vulnerable than adults.
All murder is morally reprehensible.

So saying I'm failing means I've failed... Very eloquent.

Please, show me exactly how my last statement "failed."

But apparently not all murder is equally reprehensible to you. You consider some murders worse than others. Surprising that you're comfortable admitting to that.

Hook, line and sinker.


Israel has murdered so many Palestinian children, and often these murders are ignored or excused away by team hasbara.

Try re-reading what I wrote again. When you do try and understand the words this time.

An overly simplistic statement that I already demonstrated as meaningless. Watch, I'll provide an example that you'll refuse to address.

Is it morally reprehensible to murder someone if doing so would prevent greater suffering? For instance, a crazy person is holding several hostages at gunpoint. He begins executing them. Is it "morally reprehensible" to kill him in order to prevent him from killing the remaining hostages?

Your ideology is simplistic and nonsensical when applied to anything less than "ideal" situations.

I'm sure a lot of Palestinians have asked the same question WRT Benjamin Netanyahu.

What would be your answer to them? Oh, no?

But please go back to spinning like a top trying to justify the murder of children. Really.

How does the IDf murdering children prevent greater suffering?

Of course I'm not the one who's unable to defend his argument. That'd be you. So far your argument has been limited to declaring yourself right, insisting that I'm failing, and refusing to defend your statements at any cost.

If you were actually confident in your POV, then you'd probably be a little less reluctant to defend it.

Read post #6 (again) then tell us all what you are going to do about it as Israeli asked, or is whining about arguments how you handle it?

If you are going to cluck your tongue in outrage and say "Fucking unbelievable. Really just so blatantly disgusting." then suggest in another thread that it's a good Idea for Palestinians refugees to settle in Sinai instead of well Palestine, when they should return to the place of their origin, I find your duality frankly dubious.

You cluck your tongue at aggressive Israeli land theft but don't have the moral fortitude to admit that Palestinian refugees deserve to reclaim their homeland not in a foreign country bu their place of origin.

Look, I was having a discussion with you. I'm not embarrassed by my views in the least. If you care to debate this issue I'm more than happy to oblige. You've heard my commentary on your simplistic, unusable ideology. If you think your ideas actually hold up under real world circumstances, (many of which require difficult choices), then by all means, engage.

Otherwise, you calling me a bigot is meaningless. If you don't have any answer as to how you'd respond under similar circumstances then your POV is meaningless. It's easy to criticize from the sidelines. People living in reality don't have the luxuries of perfect options.

Right now it appears that you don't want to consider my question because you have no answer that fits your philosophy. Prove me wrong. It don't. Either way stop whining about it. Put up or shut up.

constructive against the occupation Daneel ....like march on mass to Washington and shout out loud ....we are Jewish Americans that voted for you Obama ....do something before its too late !!!

They are going to take it all .....and then annex !!

New Horizon

A week after
The Gaza ceasefire:
Prelude to
The next war.

A massive land robbery
For settlement construction -
That is the horizon
To which
Netanyahu is looking.

Published in Haaretz - September 5, 2014

Gush Shalom .

http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/weekly_ad/1409861515/

AFP Published: 09.05.14, 11:38 / Israel News

Israel has launched a tender for the construction of 283 housing units in the Elkana settlement in the West Bank, the Israeli Land Authority said on its website Friday.

The proposed extension of the Elkana settlement, located northwest of the West Bank, was approved in January and the tender issued Thursday.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4567892,00.html

seems fixated on me,

He has been ignoring my direct questions to him and my posts in reply to his for a very long time .....

Example from one of your OP's :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113479474

....and going as far back as to here :

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=70300

Ignores me the same way he ignores Shulamit Aloni

What to expect from the Israeli Right after Protective Edge

Progressive forces in Israel need to be prepared: The Israeli Right has yet to exhaust all of its options for dealing with the Palestinians. The alternatives to Netanyahu’s status quo involve moves toward a Greater Israel and full segregation based on extreme nationalism and hatred.

By Mati Shemoelof (translated by Rotem Nir)

@ http://972mag.com/what-to-expect-from-the-israeli-right-after-protective-edge/96346/

Ideologues with fixed opinions more or less have to, when those opinions come into question based on events. For more than sixty years the Israel project has relied on the idea that somehow the Palestinians could be made to leave, to disappear, yet still they are there. Did you notice the somewhat plaintive offer of land in the Sinai?

offer, so we're all Egyptians now?

I am seeing a push for this, not the first time but this one cracked me up. I believe this idea
and his expressions of it would be well received by many..just not the Palestinians.
He's so sweet about it...just go..you'll like it..no worries:

Rabbi Metzger suggested that the UK, European Union and America could help build a Palestinian country in Sinai and “move them to the wonderful new, modern country with trains, buses cars, like in Arizona, we are now in a generation where you can take a desert and build a nice city.

“This will be a solution for the poor people, they will have a nice country, and we shall have our country and we shall live in peace. We will welcome every Palestinian man who wants to pray in his mosque. Every Friday they can come, but with one condition, without violence. We have the same feeling about prayers, we want to give you respect but let us live and believe our land is the holy land and Jerusalem belongs to us.”

Rabbi Metzger was equally vocal on Jerusalem insisting that it must not be given up.

He said: “We had a decision in the chief rabbinate council that Jerusalem belongs to Israel and she will be the capital city forever to the Jewish nation. Every important person that comes to visit to Israel, the Prime Minsiter asks me to go with to the wailing wall. One of the things I show them is that this Wailing Wall is the place every Jew all over the world is praying to. All the synagogues are facing Jerusalem. But behind the kotel we have the mosque, they used it because it is such a holy place to us we cannot enter. But when they pray, even though they are in our holiest place, they face Mecca. Their back is to Jerusalem. They have no connection.”

http://archive.totallyjewish.com/news/give-sinai-to-the-palestinians/

Hey right-wingers, the Arabs are staying

The ultra-nationalists are dreaming about ethnic cleansing, Armageddon, anything. Any miracle will do. But no miracle will happen.

By Gideon Levy

The main news first: The Arabs are here to stay, even if our most ultra-nationalist politicians keep rising.

They’re here even if Avigdor Lieberman becomes president and prime minister; Naftali Bennett becomes foreign and defense minister; Yariv Levin becomes minister of justice, enlightenment and morality; Itamar Ben-Gvir becomes interior and public security minister; Miri Regev becomes culture minister; and “the Shadow” — rapper Yoav Eliasi — becomes strategic affairs minister. Even if all this happened, the Arabs would stay.

The Arabs of 1948 are staying, as are those of 1967. The Arabs in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza and the entire region – they stay where they are. Israel’s dream for them to somehow wither away will never happen. They won’t leave, they won’t be expelled. They’re here forever. It’s their sumud, their steadfastness.

With the demise of the two-state dream, brought about in part by the characters listed above, Israel should consider what to do. It’s the ultra-nationalists, those Arab-lovers, who are doing everything to ensure the establishment of one big state including Arabs. It’s they who should be concerned about this shocking news.

They should be spearheading attempts to improve relations with the Arabs in order to be accepted in the region. They, who didn’t want two states and will most likely get only one, must understand that this state will be like Yugoslavia, if not Somalia, unless they quickly take action to become more accepted by their unwanted neighbors, the steadfast ones.

They should be the legions fighting in defense of the language — Arabic, naturally. They should be imparting the heritage — that of the Nakba, obviously. By all means possible, they should be combating the discrimination against Israel’s Arabs and the displacement of Arabs in the occupied territories.

As soon as they realize that the Arabs are here to stay, they should think about our shared future, shouldn’t they? As soon as it’s clear we’ll be living in the shared dwelling you wished for, dear annexationists, we should think about our shared future. We’ll need a residents’ committee and a treasurer; we’ll have to take turns cleaning the stairwell.

This is what you wanted, wasn’t it? One-fifth of this country’s inhabitants are staying – they can’t be shoved into a corner more than they have been already. If you want another two to three million from the West Bank, please behave accordingly. This is want you wanted – you’ve won, so go for it. Start taking your plan seriously.

This, of course, is wishful thinking. The ultra-nationalists still believe that if only they made Palestinian lives more miserable, abusing both Israeli citizens and subjects of the occupation, beating and humiliating them, killing and arresting them, maybe a miracle would happen and they’d disappear.

Things will somehow turn out well, perhaps a voluntary or involuntary transfer, perhaps ethnic cleansing, Armageddon, anything. Any miracle will do. But no miracle will happen.

So what is to be done, dear right-wingers? What goes through your minds when you proclaim that it’s all ours, that Hebron is ours forever and Nazareth is a Jewish city? Apartheid? That won’t work. Transfer?

The world won’t allow it. Do you think the Arabs will surrender — that they’ll grovelingly accept being sixth-class citizens forever, or residents of the West Bank with no rights? This has no precedent in history.

What would happen if people on the right changed their habits and, for once, thought a few years ahead? What kind of country do they want? What sort of relations? What are their plans? What are their conclusions?

You don’t have to argue with them, only ask them a simple question: What will be here? Let’s say we happily embrace their teachings, eagerly adopt their vision, and everything becomes for Jews only, as they so fervently wish. What will happen here? What about the Arabs?

Actually, the right doesn’t worry about such trivia. Deep in its heart it still believes that the problems will all go away. In the meantime, Haaretz columnist Rogel Alpher is leaving but Mohammed is staying. He’ll be here long after us.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.614422

And they babble on endlessly about a Western Civilization of which they know little and embody less. Not unlike my own politicians here. Lovers of fear and hate, money and power.

Edit: Levy is a treasure, a mensch when there are damn few left.

The vision of a bi-national state?

It must be the craziest of worlds where Hamas declares victory in Gaza, Israel seizes a large parcel of land in the west bank, and Abbas is clearly the loser of the whole affair.

and the world watches and does NOTHING. I have no pity for israel any more - none.

Numerous countries refuse to even recognize Israel in part because of what it is doing in the West Bank.

Others have boycotted goods made in settlements and taken a variety of similar steps against Israel.