...there goes that punchline.

Ahmadinejad ISN'T a warmonger for calling for the elimination of Israel but people who call him out for his words ARE warmongers?

Just wanted to make sure that I understood your position.

That's the point. But it didn't stop the warmongers from saying he did.

Fuck the warmongers!

Just like the oft-misquoted

"We're going to drive the Jews into the sea" which -- as we all know -- was actually

"Let's take the Jews to the beach for a holiday"

Funny how these things get misconstrued.

The "Dear Leader" of Iran can't even SAY the word Israel, he will choke if he doesn't use the euphemism ... "Zionist Entity"

Last edited Sat Apr 21, 2012, 11:19 PM - Edit history (2)

It was a poster(pic in #37) from the annual convention of The International Cartographic Association held in Tehran. It was talkng about the contest as to who could draw the best map of Israel from scratch. There were similar posters for other countries being drawn in the contest. That is also what Ahmadinejad was refering to. It was a blatantly used to smear Iran.

Everyone knows the official Iranian media like Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB), Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA) and The President's Office (Ahmadinejad ) own website was tricked into incorrectly translating the "wiped" comment. The same goes for many of the other comments we often hear that are used to smear Iran. Ahmadinejad has also stated he wanted to wipe the slate clean and work for peace with Israel which was also mistranslated as he wanted to wipe Israel off the map.
Ahmadinejad also never called Israel a cancerous tumor that should be wiped off the map but said that Iran and Israel should work together for a cure for cancer and wipe cancer off the map for all mankind. He also said Iran and Israel should work together to wipe off the map the cancerous tumor of war, disease, famine and other ills afflicting the world.

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2012, 10:40 AM - Edit history (1)

The Western press just reported on Iran's own translation.

There is no debate on the more recent comment saying that Israel is a cancerous tumor that should be cut and will be cut.

And that was from the Supreme Leader, the man who actually calls the shots over there.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,618559-3,00.html

SPIEGEL: …and you too would have to recognize Israel, a country that you have said, in the past, you would like to[font color = "red"] "wipe off the map."[/font] Please tell us exactly what you said and what you meant by it.

Ahmadinejad: Let me put it this way, facetiously: Why did the Germans cause so much trouble back then, allowing these problems to arise in the first place? The Zionist regime is the result of World War II. What does any of this have to do with the Palestinian people? Or with the Middle East region? I believe that we must get to the root of the problem. If one doesn't consider the causes, there can be no solution.

SPIEGEL: Does getting to the root of the problem mean [font color = "red"]wiping out Israel?[/font]

Ahmadinejad: It means claiming the rights of the Palestinian people. I believe that this is to everyone's benefit, to that of America, Europe and Germany. But didn't we want to discuss Germany and German-Iranian relations?

SPIEGEL: That's what we are talking about. The fact that you deny Israel's right to exist is of critical importance when it comes to German-Iranian relations.

Ahmadinejad: Do you believe that the German people support the Zionist regime? Do you believe that a referendum could be held in Germany on this question? If you did allow such a referendum to take place, you would discover that the German people hate the Zionist regime.

one israel has his own interpretation of what the guy said...and thats it?...so this one israeli is so incredibly smart and knowledgable that he just KNOWS.

hmm, well i'm an israeli, so are you ready for my pronouncement?...ready?

the moon is made of gray cheese!!!! (please pass this on to NASA, as clearly NASA has been getting a lot of milage out their "moon rocks' lie.

No wonder no one comes here.

that because of what one israeli says.... that simply "stops the conversation"....than your answer is yes. For others who have comments that aren't as simplistic, they get different responses.

... you will be missed.

... every time I hear it.

Yeah,that's it.

The little slug said it repeatedly.

... in the never-ending quest to cast Iran as the poor-downtrodden pacifists and Israelis (of a certain ethnic persuasion) as blood-thirsty antagonists.

No one really believes it -- not even those who continuously repeat it

If Iran were threatening any other country , the world would be apoplectic.

But since it's Israel ( of that certain ethnic persuasion ) well then it must be a 'misquote'.

Bullsplit.

Maybe it's just me but when a head of state of a huge well-armed country speaks to the world, it seems to me we should be asking if anything he says could possibly be taken as a threat of aggression. And if so, shouldn't he be made to realize very clearly that the international community will not tolerate aggression (or even threats of it). Wouldn't that be more likely to prevent a war than making excuses for him?

Maybe another mistranslation. Should be 'Hugs and Kisses to Israel'?

&feature=player_embedded

October, 2005: "Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine... I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world. But we must be aware of tricks."

July, 2006: "Nations in the region will be more furious every day. It won't take long before the wrath of the people turns into a terrible explosion that will wipe the Zionist entity off the map...The basic problem in the Islamic world is the existence of the Zionist regime, and the Islamic world and the region must mobilize to remove this problem. It is a usurper that our enemies made and imposed on the Muslim world, a regime that prevented the progress of the region's nations, a regime that all Muslims must join hands in isolating worldwide."

August, 2006: "Our position on the Middle East is clear. We want the root of tensions to be removed. During these sixty years what was the root of massacres, crimes and conflicts?...The solution is clear and nothing has changed."

October, 2006: "This regime (Israel) will be gone, definitely..."You (the Western powers) should know that any government that stands by the Zionist regime from now on will not see any result but the hatred of the people...The wrath of the region's people is boiling... You should not complain that we did not give a warning. We are saying this explicitly now..."

November, 2006: "The great powers created the Zionist regime to extend their domination in the region. Every day this regime is massacring Palestinians...As this regime goes against the path of life, we will soon see its disappearance and its destruction."

December, 2006: "The Zionist regime is on the slope of disappearance and the freedom movement and the struggles of the Palestinian people have more success every day...It is the religious duty of all Muslims to stand by the Palestines...The continued crimes of the Zionist regime will only accelerate the downfall of this fake regime."

December, 2006: "I want to tell [Western counties] that just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and does not exist anymore, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out and humanity will be free."

June, 2007: ''God willing, in the near future we will witness the destruction of the corrupt occupier regime..."

June, 2007: ''In Lebanon, the corrupt, arrogant powers and the Zionist regime did all they could in an unfair 33-day war. But after 60 years [Israel's] greatness fell apart...The countdown to this regime's destruction started through the hands of Hezbollah's children...We will witness the destruction of this regime in the near future thanks to the endeavours of all Palestinian and Lebanese fighters.''

August, 2007: "Our support (for the Palestinian people) is unconditional. As for the Israelis, let them go find somewhere else."

August, 2007: "The Zionist regime is the standard bearer of invasion, occupation and Satan...When the philosophy behind the establishment of a regime is in question, it is not unlikely that it will find itself on a course of decline and dissolution."

October 5, 2007: "Canada and Alaska have vast lands, why don't you relocate them over there and keep helping them over there with (aid of) 30 to 40 billion dollars per year for building a new existence over there?"

November, 2007: "It is impossible that the Zionist regime will survive. Collapse is in the nature of this regime because it has been created on aggression, lying, oppression and crime..."

January, 2008: "I advise you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity which has reached the end of the line... It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers' days are numbered."

February, 2008: "World powers have created a black and dirty microbe named the Zionist regime and have unleashed it like a savage animal on the nations of the region."

March, 2008: "Gaza is the beginning, the real issue is elsewhere. They should know that both in the prelude and in the real thing they face a defeat and this time they will be uprooted."

April, 2008: "The time has come to see the weakness and collapse of the Zionist regime and its supporters. They are doing everything in order to save it, but they will not succeed."

May, 2008: "Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken... Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned and this regime is on its way to annihilation...has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese."

June, 2008: &quot Israel) has reached the end of its function and will soon disappear off the geographical domain."

October, 2010, to Hezbollah: "My dear ones, you are victorious and your enemies are defeated. You will stay and your enemies, who are the enemies of humanity, are on the slippery slope to destruction. You are honorable and respected and your Zionist enemies are shamed, wretched and pitiful."

http://challahhuakbar.blogspot.com/2011/01/quoting-iranian-president-madman.html

He sure does get misquoted a lot.

Last edited Thu Apr 19, 2012, 05:25 AM - Edit history (1)

here is some about MEMRI's translations

Accusations of bias

Brian Whitaker, the Middle East editor for The Guardian newspaper wrote in a public email debate with Carmon, that his problem with MEMRI was that it "poses as a research institute when it's basically a propaganda operation." [5] Earlier, Whitaker had charged that MEMRI's role was to "further the political agenda of Israel." and that MEMRI's website does not mention Carmon's employment for Israeli intelligence, or Meyrav Wurmser's political stance, which he described as an "extreme brand of Zionism." [3] Carmon responded to this by stating that his employment history is not a secret and was not political, as he served under opposing administrations of the Israeli government and that perhaps the issue was that he was Israeli: "If your complaint is that I am Israeli, then please say so." Camron also questioned Whitaker's own biases, wondering if Whitaker's is biased in favor of Arabs -as his website on the middle east is named "Al-Bab" ("The Gateway" in Arabic)- stating: "I wonder how you would judge an editor whose website was called "Ha-Sha-ar" ("The Gateway" in Hebrew)?[5]
[edit] Selectivity

Several critics have accused MEMRI of selectivity. They state that MEMRI consistently picks for translation and dissemination the most extreme views, which portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light, while ignoring moderate views that are often found in the same media outlets.[3][28][28][29][30] Juan Cole, Professor of Modern Middle East History at the University of Michigan, argues MEMRI has a tendency to "cleverly cherry-pick the vast Arabic press, which serves 300 million people, for the most extreme and objectionable articles and editorials...On more than one occasion I have seen, say, a bigoted Arabic article translated by MEMRI and when I went to the source on the web, found that it was on the same op-ed page with other, moderate articles arguing for tolerance. These latter were not translated."[31] Former head of the CIA's counterintelligence unit, Vincent Cannistraro, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud. They simply don't present the whole picture."[32][33] Laila Lalami, writing in The Nation, states that MEMRI "consistently picks the most violent, hateful rubbish it can find, translates it and distributes it in e-mail newsletters to media and members of Congress in Washington".[28] As a result, critics such as Ken Livingstone state, MEMRI's analyses are "distortion".[34][35] A report by Center for American Progress, titled "Fear, Inc. The Roots of the Islamophobia Network in America" lists MEMRI as promoting Islamophobic propaganda in the USA through supplying selective translations that are relied upon by several organisations "to make the case that Islam is inherently violent and promotes extremism."[36]

MEMRI argues that they are quoting the government-controlled press and not obscure or extremist publications, a fact their critics acknowledge, according to Marc Perelman."When we quote Al-Ahram in Egypt, it is as if we were quoting The New York Times. We know there are people questioning our work, probably those who have difficulties seeing the truth. But no one can show anything wrong about our translations."[32]
[edit] Translation inaccuracy
See also: Tomorrow's Pioneers#Translation controversy

The accuracy of MEMRI's translations are often disputed,[37] as in the case of MEMRI's translation of a 2004 Osama bin Laden video, which MEMRI defended.[5][35][38][39][40] Norman Finkelstein, in an interview with the newspaper In Focus compared MEMRI to the "propaganda techniques" of the Nazis.[41]

Following the 7 July 2005 London bombings, Al Jazeera invited Hani al-Sebai, an Islamist living in Britain, to take part in a discussion on the event. For one segment of the discussion in regard to the victims, MEMRI provided the following translation of al-Sebai's words:

the term civilians does not exist in Islamic religious law. Dr Karmi is sitting here, and I am sitting here, and I’m familiar with religious law. There is no such term as civilians in the modern western sense. People are either at war or not.[42]

Al-Sebai subsequently claimed that MEMRI had mistranslated his interview, and that among other errors, he had actually said:

there is no term in Islamic jurisprudence called civilians. Dr Karmi is here sitting with us, and he's very familiar with the jurisprudence. There are fighters and non-fighters. Islam is against the killing of innocents. The innocent man cannot be killed according to Islam.

By leaving out the condemnation of the "killing of innocents" entirely, Mohammed El Oifi writing in Le Monde diplomatique argued that this translation left the implication that civilians (the innocent) are considered a legitimate target.[34] Several British newspapers subsequently used MEMRI's translation to run headlines such as "Islamic radical has praised the suicide bomb attacks on the capital"[43] prompting al-Sebai to demand an apology and take legal action. He also claimed that MEMRI's translation was "an incitement to have me arrested by the British authorities."[44]

Halim Barakat described MEMRI as a "a propaganda organization dedicated to representing Arabs and Muslims as anti-semites." Barakat claims an essay he wrote for the Al-Hayat Daily of London titled The Wild Beast that Zionism Created: Self-Destruction, was mistranslated by MEMRI and retitled as Jews Have Lost Their Humanity. Barakat further stated "Every time I wrote Zionism, MEMRI replaced the word by Jew or Judaism. They want to give the impression that I’m not criticizing Israeli policy, but that what I’m saying is anti-Semitic".[41][45][46] According to Barakat, he was subject to widespread condemnation from faculty and his office was "flooded with hatemail."[47][48] Fellow Georgetown faculty member Aviel Roshwald accused Barakat in an article he published of promoting a "demonization of Israel and of Jews".[49] Supported by Georgetown colleagues, Barakat denied the claim[50] which Roshwald had based on MEMRI's translation of Barakat's essay.[49]

In 2007, CNN correspondent Atika Shubert and Arabic translators accused MEMRI of mistranslating portions of a Palestinian children's television programme.

"Media watchdog MEMRI translates one caller as saying - quote - 'We will annihilate the Jews,"' said Shubert. "But, according to several Arabic speakers used by CNN, the caller actually says 'The Jews are killing us."'[51][52]

CNN's Glenn Beck later invited Yigal Carmon onto his program to comment on the mistranslation. Carmon criticized CNN's translators understanding of Arabic stating: "Even someone who doesn't know Arabic would listen to the tape and would hear the word 'Jews' is at the end, and also it means it is something to be done to the Jews, not by the Jews. And she (Octavia Nasr) insisted, no the word is in the beginning. I said: 'Octavia, you just don't get it. It is at the end'". Brian Whitaker, the Middle East editor for the Guardian newspaper (UK) later pointed out that the word order in Arabic is not the same as in English: "the verb comes first and so a sentence in Arabic which literally says 'Are shooting at us the Jews' means 'The Jews are shooting at us'".[37]

Brian Whitaker wrote in a blog for the Guardian newspaper that in the translation of the video, showing Farfour eliciting political comments from a young girl named Sanabel, the MEMRI transcript misrepresents the segment. Farfour asks Sanabel what she will do and, after a pause says "I'll shoot", MEMRI attributed the phrase said by Farfour, ("I'll shoot&quot , as the girl's reply while ignoring her actual reply ("I'm going to draw a picture&quot .[53] Whitaker and others commented that a statement uttered by the same child, ("We're going to [or want to] resist&quot , had been given an unduly aggressive interpretation by MEMRI as ("We want to fight&quot . Also, where MEMRI translated the girl as saying the highly controversial remark ("We will annihilate the Jews&quot , Whitaker and others, including Arabic speakers used by CNN, insist that based on careful listening to the low quality video clip, the girl is saying "Bitokhoona al-yahood", variously interpreted as, "The Jews [will] shoot us"[53] or "The Jews are killing us."[54]

MEMRI defends their translation of the show, saying: "Yes, we stand by the translation by the very words, by the context, by the syntax, and every measure of the translation."[54]

In response to accusations of inaccuracies and distortion, Yigal Carmon, said:

As an institute of research, we want MEMRI to present translations to people who wish to be informed on the ideas circulating in the Middle East. We aim to reflect reality. If knowledge of this reality should benefit one side or another, then so be it.

In an e-mail debate with Carmon, Whitaker asked about MEMRI's November 2000 translation of an interview given by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to al-Ahram al-Arabi. One question asked by the interviewer was: "How do you deal with the Jews who are besieging al-Aqsa and are scattered around it?" which was translated as: "How do you feel about the Jews?". MEMRI cut out the first part of the reply and combined it with the answer to the next question which, Whitaker claimed, made "Arabs look more anti-semitic than they are". Carmon admitted this was an error in translation but defended combining the two replies as both questions referred to the same subject. Carmon rejected other claims of distortion by Whitaker, saying: "it is perhaps reassuring that you had to go back so far to find a mistake ... You accused us of distortion by omission but when asked to provide examples of trends and views we have missed, you have failed to answer." Carmon also accused Whitaker of "using insults rather than evidence" in his criticism of MEMRI.[5]

Whitaker claims that although Memri's translations are usually accurate, they are selective and often out of context. He stated: "When errors do occur, it's difficult to attribute them to incompetence or accidental lapses ... there appears to be a political motive."[37]

This page was last modified on 14 April 2012 at 08:19.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute

now if you'd I'll post a link about where MEMRI's funding comes from

and it is greeted with a chorus of no it wrong its wrong add to that Bibi's Holocaust Remembrance day speech comparing Iran to Nazi Germany again, it kind of makes one wonder is there really that great a desire by some DUers for a war with Iran?

Israel's minister of Intelligence speaking

who made him god?....

albeit will harm a good deal of the world, it is the involvement of mine in such a fools errand that I am concerned about

with Israel taking out whatever of Iran's nuclear site it can.

I've read online the same handwringing and dire predictions when israel took out the iraq nuke facility and then the Syrian nuke facility. The same bs 'the world is now ending' predictions.

I have not a shred of doubt than Iran or one it's terror groups will have no compunction to use them.

And I doubt Israel is going to sit back and become target practice for the uber-theocracy of Iran .

however it should be noted that in the case of Iraq and Syria there was no pre-attack hand-wringing as as both attacks were indeed surprise, in the case of Syria the claims about nuclear intentions were made after the attack and in Iraq the reactor had already been damaged by an Iranian attack, Iraq had a year earlier invaded Iran and was embroiled in a war with Iran at the time due to that invasion.

also it should be noted that both the Iraqi and Syrian facilities were above ground and easy targets, unlike the Iranian

No pre-attack hand-wringing in the case of Iraq?

Can you even mean that seriously?

You knowledge of this topic comes from where exactly?

Anything beyond Wikipedia? (which itself contradicts what you've written here)

here is what wiki says

Operation Opera (Hebrew: אופרה? [1], also known as Operation Babylon[2] was a surprise Israeli air strike carried out on June 7, 1981, that destroyed a nuclear reactor under construction 17 kilometers (10.5 miles) southeast of Baghdad, Iraq.[3]

Iranian attack

Iran attacked and damaged the site on September 30, 1980, with two F-4 Phantoms, shortly after the outbreak of the Iran-Iraq War.[45] At the onset of the war, Yehoshua Saguy, director of the Israeli Military Intelligence Directorate, publicly urged the Iranians to bomb the reactor.[45][46] This was the first attack on a nuclear reactor and only the third on a nuclear facility in the history of the world. It was also the first instance of a preventive attack on a nuclear reactor which aimed to forestall the development of a nuclear weapon, though it did not achieve its objective as France later repaired the reactor

This page was last modified on 2 April 2012 at 11:17.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

now as for Syria the attack also was surprise and the nuclear claims were made after the attack I do remember I posted the first thread on the subject of Syria's nukes on DU2 shortly after the attack

Not Wikipedia, not websites, actual books.

Have you?

but please share with us what must be your superior knowledge of these events the public announcements that sais ahead of time Israel would strike these targets, the ones that say Iran's reactors are just as vulnerable as Iraq's and Syria's alleged reactor were

why him? i suspect you actually have no idea who he is outside of his present title....and using him is supposed to give you credibility to your point of view...

because that apparently is what you think, unless of course your just talking to be talking
but then again what Meridor (who does make news reports from time to time) goes with what translations other than MEMRI's have said of Ahmadinejad's words

and on that having read your posts for years now you seem quite wrapped up in fear and paranoia about Iran about Palestinians and feel that the strength of the gun is the only way to deal with these threats is that the normal Israeli mind set?

Last edited Sat Apr 21, 2012, 06:53 PM - Edit history (1)

we don't have to "parse the the words, imagine what they are saying, or any other games. They tried more than once to eliminate us, they have attacked our civilians as per their moral standards and attack us diplomatically constantly with the most absurd accusations..... (they being the mixed bag of various regimes in the geographic area)

when a regime says its best to remove us (or partial remove or whatever....), we have no reason not to believe them, nor do we have any reason to believe they are just playing political games with diplomatic speak and don't really mean what they say or hint.

when and if they are willing to accept us here, they can say it loud and clear and back up those words with actions, both via education of their youth and actual actions that do not threaten us in any matter that can be misconstrued...at that point and only at that point will we relax.

its not difficult and its not a game we're interested in playing.....call it fear, call it paranoia.....or recall 1948, 1967. 1973, pre 1982, 2002, 2006......"mixed messages" are not infact just mixed, they are "mixed' for a reason.

playing with "genocide" or genocide lite or pseudo genocide or hudna, or all those other variations will not get a warm reception from the only people to have actually been subjected to industrialized genocide. Those people/regimes that are interested in making a real peace with israel will accept that part of the israeli psyche, ignore it, pretend it never happened and you simply wont get a "warm reception and you will be suspect....

its like your 'non violent, humanitarian aid"...sometimes they are non violent, sometimes they provoke, sometimes they aid/support others to be violent, and sometimes they too are violent, hence as far as we are concerned, when someone comes and claims they are "non violent, they are to be suspect....experience has taught us that.

(meridor, i believe, is just playing local politics.....)