Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumConnecting Zionism and Civil Rights
As we commemorate Rosa Park’s triumphant refusal to go to the back of a segregated bus on Dec. 1, 1955, an action that catalyzed the Civil Rights Movement, we recall all of the wonderful things that the movement brought to the United States. It brought the end of Jim Crow laws, the passing of the Civil Rights Act, Dr. King’s “I Have a Dream” speech and many other crowning achievements of a liberal society finally changing with the times. Though great things have been accomplished, everyone can agree that much more needs to be done to ensure that Dr. King, Rosa Parks, A. Philip Randolph, Bayard Rustin and many other great Civil Rights leaders did not strive in vain.
But there is a very interesting fact about these individuals that most people do not know: All of these freedom fighters were also Zionists....
Many of the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement were prominent, staunch Zionists who believed in the self-determination of the Jewish people. In addition, they supported the State of Israel and fought for its obligation to defend itself and its unalienable right to exist....
...Zionism is the Jewish people’s civil rights movement. It was a movement founded to protect the Jewish community from anti-Semitism throughout the world, seeing the creation of a national homeland for the Jewish people in their indigenous home of Judea as a means of bringing Jews out of persecution. The Civil Rights Movement proclaimed African-Americans’ right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; as Jews, we proclaimed that we had a right to no longer be targeted by anti-Semitism in Europe or around the world, and that we have a right to live as self-determined, proud and open Jews in our indigenous homeland....
http://tsl.pomona.edu/articles/2014/12/5/opinions/5884-connecting-zionism-and-civil-rights
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GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Comparing what Israel is doing to Arabs to the civil rights movement is not only incomprehensible but shameful.
Post about something else once in awhile, please....
shira
(30,109 posts)I guess since your prism is not shared by most of the rest of the world, they don't have a clue either.
Typical zealot, filled with the blinding light of hubris.
shira
(30,109 posts)...over the past couple thousand years when it comes to Jews. That's nothing to hang your hat on...
GitRDun
(1,846 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The movements from Chicanos and Native Americans, likewise, didn't harm the rights of anyone else.
The women's rights movement did not strip rights from men.
The GLBT rights movement does nothing to harm straight people.
Zionism can't claim the same. In fact, Zionism shows the opposite - Zionism has brought very real and very obvious harm to the Arabs it has been imposed upon - be they Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, or Egyptian. It harms other non-Jews within Israel as well, such as the African communities that have been targeted by Zionist parties and "activists." A case could also be made for it bringing harm to Jewish communities both within Israel and abroad.
This is because Zionism is not a civil rights movement. Zionism is a supremacist movement, in the same vein as white nationalism, with much the same results.
It is entirely possible - and maybe even needed - for there to be a movement for Jewish equality and civil rights. Zionism, however, is not that movement
Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.
When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism!
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/1091950
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Unfortunately, he did. He said them at a dinner party in Cambridge (as quoted by Seymour Martin Lipset in Encounter magazine, December 1969, p. 24)
In fact, the complete quotation has a much sharper tone: Dr. King took a zero-tolerance approach to anti-Zionism:
One of the young men present happened to make some remark against the Zionists. Dr. King snapped at him and said, "Don't talk like that! When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism!"
http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/1091950
more over nothing in that quote disproves anything the previous poster said
shira
(30,109 posts)....like reactionary anti-Zionists do today.
In fact, he strongly supported the Jewish state's existence.
As did Coretta Scott King, Rosa Parks, Bayard Rustin, Hank Aaron, Arthur Ashe...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)more over all the figures you mention are from 60-30 years ago and every person you enumerate is dead--IOW the past things have changed opinions have changed at least they have for those who's minds evolve
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)except as a IMO rather lame talking point, ditto what was decades ago heck a couple of decades ago I was a Zionist as I said things change and I'll add the internet helped a great deal in that as it gave voice to those formerly nearly voiceless to Western ears
shira
(30,109 posts)Eight years after his death, King’s allies, rivals, and successors united in hostility against the U.N.’s 1975 Zionism is Racism resolution, which is the Rosetta Stone of the anti-Zionist movement, and the polluted source from which the Apartheid charge against Israel emerged. The Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver said: “to condemn the Jewish survival doctrine of Zionism as racism is a travesty upon the truth.” Vernon Jordan, the National Urban League president, wrote: “Black people, who recognize code words since we’ve been victimized by code words like ‘forced busing,’ ‘law and order,’ and others, can easily smell out the fact that ‘Zionism’ in this context is a code word for anti-Semitism." Leading African-American intellectuals signed an ad warning that incorrectly injecting the word “racism” into the national conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would derail the fight against the evil Apartheid regime in South Africa.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/01/21/mlk-and-israel.html
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and we heard more than 1 side and I find your use of Cleaver who also is now dead laughable as the fight against apartheid was won long ago by the same sort of BDS you fear so much now
shira
(30,109 posts)You have zero evidence he would've turned.
I don't doubt he'd have supported a peaceful 2 state resolution, but that's a far cry from the anti-Zionist position.
==========
A significant chunk of MLK's white support came from Jews - way out of proportion to our numbers. The same vast majority of Jews who today support Israel very strongly.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)MLK would have "turned" are you claiming he would have supported Netanyahu et al? Perhaps Israels treatment of non Jewish Blacks may have caused him pause for thought but who knows it's question that will remain unanswered
shira
(30,109 posts)Mandela never turned into an anti-Zio racist either.
And supporting Israel's right to exist is not the equivalent of supporting Bibi. You know that, so why put it out there?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)claim? And in today's world Bibi as the leader of Israel would be the top representative of Zionism
shira
(30,109 posts)....and going out of the way to defend Hamas is practically calling for Israel's destruction and harm to Jews. Neither Mandela nor MLK would support that.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Shaktimaan
(5,397 posts)Hoax email. Try again.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 6, 2014, 07:57 AM - Edit history (1)
...you're proving to be against civil rights & the rights of indigenous people (Jews). And please save the racist shit about Jews not being a nation with indigenous rights to their historic homeland.
Arab regimes could have long ago agreed to live in peace and prosperity alongside Israel, but they've chosen war instead. In their blind anti-semitic hate they've sacrificed their own in order to destroy Jews who are a threat to their illiberal, regressive totalitarian rule. Dictators could care less about their people & in every failed state in that area the people suffer - deliberately. That's not the Jews fault.
Look around the mideast neighborhood. Christians and other religious minorities are an endangered species in that region. Without their own state, Jews would be too. According to many, Jews are meant to live as accursed people, subject to the rule of others. An independent and sovereign Jewish state is therefore a religious blasphemy to fundamentalist bigots in that area of the world.
Let's talk reality, not the bullshit you just wrote about.
If peace could be achieved, Israel would have agreed to it many times in the past 7 decades. They've offered it many times over. They'd like nothing more than to live in prosperity among their neighbors. Neighboring failed states could be prosperous if they worked with Israel rather than against it. They don't want that and neither do western rightwing fascists or the reactionary Imperialist Left. They all want war on Israel & all the gore that entails.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Chloe Valdary • 7 hours ago
You're wrong. Zionism is no more about ethnic privilege than the NAACP is about black privilege. Zionism is about honoring the Jewish heritage and celebrating it just like other ethnic groups are celebrated and relish their own culture.
shira
(30,109 posts)Someone named 'Matt Dahl' brought up Ferguson as well as MLK's comments being 50 years old.
In response, there's this:
Matt, your problem is that you ignore the diversity within Zionism and you blanket the entire movement of Jewish self-determination because of your vitriolic disapproval of Israel. One can be critical of Israel policies, as I am, but still fight for its inalienable right to exist and its obligation to defend itself. You have called for BDS, which intrinsically hopes to destroy the Jewish state, cripple the Israeli economy, endanger the job security of innocent Israelis AND Palestinian-Arabs, and you have not once expressed the belief that Israel should have the same obligations to protect its people and to exist as every other nation-state in the world. That is a double-standard, and I find it ironic that you will continue to preach tolerance and liberal values while peddling these inconsistent values. Maybe when you are willing to look at the Arab-Israeli conflict as one where the Arab world has perpetuately refused to recognize Israel, live in peace, and accept its legal right to the land west of the Jordan River (see San Remo 1920), then we can have a true conversation about how to address the challenges to peace between both populations. I will patiently wait to have this conversation with you in person.
Also this...
I am still waiting for him to comment on those topics in order to show equivalence to his strong opposition to Israel. However, I feel as if I have a better chance finding proof of the Loch Ness Monster. He has given me no reason to believe that he's interested in hearing opinions or facts that contradict his or his understanding of the world. It is truly a shame and a true testament to how corrupted the left has become in terms of not upholding the very freedoms they claim to peddle.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)as to the comments you quote they're typical antiPalestinian Islamophobic fare
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Excellent article!
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)
shira
(30,109 posts)...to show how Jews are attacked by both terrorists and their western fascist backers - due to Jewish ethnicity alone.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)however in the present day Israel has a ready and incredibly well armed military force to protect it's citizens against 'terrorists', so the comparison is quite null and void these days
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 6, 2014, 04:38 PM - Edit history (1)
Never Jews.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)never say never as to Israel IDF/Border Police/Shin-Bet all protect Israelis against terror where as Palestinians have no real protection much like the Ferguson protesters
