Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumFull text of Palestinians’ UN resolution: End the occupation by 2017
Noting with appreciation the efforts of the United States in 2013/14 to facilitate and advance negotiations between the parties aimed at achieving a final peace settlement,
Aware of its responsibilities to help secure a long-term solution to the conflict,
1. Affirms the urgent need to attain, no later than 12 months after the adoption of this resolution, a just, lasting and comprehensive peaceful solution that brings an end to the Israeli occupation since 1967 and fulfills the vision of two independent, democratic and prosperous states, Israel and a sovereign, contiguous and viable State of Palestine living side by side in peace and security within mutually and internationally recognized borders;
2. Decides that the negotiated solution will be based on the following parameters:
borders based on 4 June 1967 lines with mutually agreed, limited, equivalent land swaps;
security arrangements, including through a third-party presence, that guarantee and respect the sovereignty of a State of Palestine, including through a full and phased withdrawal of Israeli security forces which will end the occupation that began in 1967 over an agreed transition period in a reasonable timeframe, not to exceed the end of 2017, and that ensure the security of both Israel and Palestine through effective border security and by preventing the resurgence of terrorism and effectively addressing security threats, including emerging and vital threats in the region.
A just and agreed solution to the Palestine refugee question on the basis of Arab Peace Initiative, international law and relevant United Nations resolutions, including resolution 194 (III);
Jerusalem as the shared capital of the two States which fulfills the legitimate aspirations of both parties and protects freedom of worship;
an agreed settlement of other outstanding issues, including water;
3. Recognizes that the final status agreement shall put an end to the occupation and an end to all claims and lead to immediate mutual recognition;
http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-palestinians-un-resolution-end-the-occupation-by-2017/#ixzz3MHJcusKt
shira
(30,109 posts)The PA/Hamas want the 2 states w/o negotiation or peace b/c they see 2-states as a stepping stone towards attacking Israel more.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)by which a 2 state solution will be met
shira
(30,109 posts)What I mean by that is if & when negotiations fail again (see 2000 and 2008) then what?
Israel must GTFO whether there's peace or not.
Do you believe the following bullshit from the PA resolution...
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)note that the Abbas the oppressive dictator has been pulled out the 'magic' hat again as it is every time the Palestinians make a noise about having their own state
shira
(30,109 posts)Do you see the PA moving in any way towards a prosperous democratic state similar to western liberal democratic countries?
That's the last thing Abbas and his cronies want.
Yes, I know you're against any criticism of the PA and Hamas, no matter the timing.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I vote yes.
shira
(30,109 posts)....as 2000 and 2008 prove it doesn't appear Israel can come close to meeting the PA's demands despite both offers (2000 and 2008) which came very close to meeting all Palestinian requirements.
Think the Kurds or Tibetans would reject such deals for their own state w/o so much as a counter-offer?
Bigger Point, ready?
What happens in 2017 when negotiations fail? Israel must be forced out?
shira
(30,109 posts)Who the hell believes Palestine will be democratic like Israel once peace is achieved? That's on the resolution.
That's complete bullshit.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)I would hope the Palestinians would embrace democracy and would reject the ideologies espoused by Hamas and like-minded groups. There are, of course, risks involved, but I think this is the best way to go at this point. The details seem pretty similar to the Geneva Initiative which I have long supported.
shira
(30,109 posts).....to running a democratic Palestine that can seriously be mentioned in the same breath with Israel.
Sure, we can hope but it will never happen.
Better that the resolution seeks to attain 2 sovereign states living side by side in peace.
Minus the bullshit.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)What would your preferred version look like?
shira
(30,109 posts)....that if Israel doesn't meet all Palestinian demands, the Palestinians get their state regardless.
All they have to do is keep saying no.
No one will hold them accountable. This is a farce.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The parameters outlined seem pretty fair to me. Do they not to you?
shira
(30,109 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Practically speaking, there can't be that many Palestinians who would want to move to Israel rather than the newly created Palestine.
shira
(30,109 posts)...want to move to Israel that the conflict continues.
In the past 66 years you'd think the Palestinians would do some polling to figure it out, come back to Israel with the real numbers, and THEN try working it out.
========================
Nope, they've used the refugees as pawns for over 6 decades, they won't do anything to settle the issue, and they will demand that all refugees insist on going to Israel.
Or else...
They know they can keep this up for as long as possible. No one challenges them. No one questions why they insist on keeping refugees in camps in horrendous (apartheid - see Lebanon) conditions or why they wouldn't want refugees resettling in the W.Bank.
They are and have been serious from the start about their demands WRT all refugees coming to Israel.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Goals vs. tactics
Asked what political goal they favored over the next five years, 60.3 percent replied "action to return historic Palestine, from the river to the sea, to our hands," while 27.3 percent answered "end[ing] the occupation of the West Bank in order to reach a two-state solution."
Another 10.1 percent said the goal should be a "one-state solution, for the entire region, from the river to the sea, in which Jews and Arabs enjoy equal rights.
If a Palestinian leadership were to reach agreement with Israel on a two-state deal, 64 percent said Palestinians should still continue to press on for a Palestinian state encompassing the territories and Israel, while 31.6 percent said they would accept a two-state solution.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.601938
That's more than a little troubling.
shira
(30,109 posts)The Palestinians want 2 states in only 1 way.
Palestinians get their own state while Israel becomes a binational state, working towards a 1-state solution.
The refugees will have no choice but to "choose" going to Israel, even if they want to be somewhere else. They're being used deliberately as a weapon to take Israel down.
Practically speaking, though - the Palestinians have to realize that they are not going to be able to take over all of Israel, even though many would like that to be the case. If there is an international agreement for two states - including recognition of Israel by those countries who don't do so now - then that needs to be the end of it.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)Like actually holding elections.
If they are incapable of that then this resolution is just a bunch of nice sounding sentiments, except the part where all the Jews in Samaria and Judea are ethnically cleansed, including the indigenous families who have been living there for many hundreds of years.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Can't they stay if they want to? Just be under Palestinian sovereignty. I bet some would want to stay even under those conditions.
Mosby
(16,319 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Check this out:
The Jewish Settlers Who Would Stay in West Bank Under Palestinian Rule
http://forward.com/articles/192272/the-jewish-settlers-who-would-stay-in-west-bank-un/?p=all#ixzz3MItu9C9z
King_David
(14,851 posts)And ending the extreme right wing bigotry against Gays in Palestine , new state or old territories.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but yet........
and oh can you give us an example of Israel protecting the Rights of Gay Palestinians living under its military rule in the OPT ?
King_David
(14,851 posts)As I said I see absolutely nothing about ending the bigotry against gays in that..... at all not zip I guess their oppression ,homophobic bigotry will just continue within Palestine as it does in just about every single country surrounding Palestine ,except for Israel.
How disappointing
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)examples please? and are you opining that Gay Rights did not matter as much somehow in 1948? Jordan legalized being Gay in 1951 more than 35 years ahead of Israel
King_David
(14,851 posts)And hate in the new Palestine is not being adressed .
SHAME in 2017 absolutely shameful that this hate of gays persists .