Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe hand that holds the status quo together
http://972mag.com/the-hand-that-holds-the-status-quo-together/100270/The Palestinians put forward a Security Council resolution calling for the end of the occupation by 2017. The Obama administration, which has supported essentially every Israeli policy toward the Palestinians, has promised to use its veto power.
The Kingdom of Jordan on Wednesday submitted a resolution draft to the United Nation Security Council, which calls for the establishing of a Palestinian state as well as a deadline for the occupation: 2017, two years from now. The proposal, which could be voted on at any time, was drafted by the Palestinian Authority in the aim of breaking the diplomatic impasse in efforts to establish a Palestinian state.
According to reports, should the Obama administration vetoe the resolution, the Palestinians will join dozens of international agencies, including perhaps the International Criminal Court a move that may allow the court to hear future charges against Israeli officials.
The United States opposes the Palestinian motion. The Israeli media reported yesterday that Secretary of State Kerry informed Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Palestinian Authority that the U.S. will veto the resolution should it come to a vote. It seems that the Americans also object to a more modest resolution proposed by the French government. The French proposal is said to put forward several parameters for a final-status agreement, setting a two-year deadline for negotiations.
A vote against a Palestinian state is a vote for continued state-sponsored apartheid. Apparently, the United States is not interested in a peaceable solution, IMHO. It appears that it just wants to help Israel continue with its illegal occupation.
I wonder why.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)How is it still OK that there are kingdoms where an unelected monarch passes power down hereditarily?
It is also strange that the friends of Palestinians around the world are not up in arms about the systematic discrimination against the several million Palestinians living in Jordan.
Half the population, in fact, is Palestinian - yet only a tiny fraction (less than 3 percent) of the Parliament are Palestinians.
Especially considering what a close ally of the US Jordan purports to be.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)
How is it still OK that there are kingdoms where an unelected monarch passes power down hereditarily?
It's not OK. I would like to see Democracy bloom everywhere
perhaps someday even in Israel.
It is also strange that the friends of Palestinians around the world are not up in arms about the systematic discrimination against the several million Palestinians living in Jordan.
We are. It's about letting the Palestinians come home from their Nakba from the Israeli expulsions. Israel stands in the way of that.
Half the population, in fact, is Palestinian - yet only a tiny fraction (less than 3 percent) of the Parliament are Palestinians.
If Israel would let the Palestinians come home
at least to a Palestinian state, free of Israeli aggression and illegal settlers, then there would be no kvetching about the Jordananian political system.
Especially considering what a close ally of the US Jordan purports to be.
Israel says that it is a close ally of the USA and look at the horrible state of affairs that it is allowed to visit on the heads of the captive Palestinian population every day.
Poor, ober. You should look closer to home instead of complaining about the eventuality of a Palestinian state: free from Israeli aggression.
shira
(30,109 posts)Last edited Sat Dec 20, 2014, 10:37 PM - Edit history (1)
It's not OK. I would like to see Democracy bloom everywhere perhaps someday even in Israel.Then start with Gaza and the parts of the W.Bank under PA control.
Where are you when Palestinians are virtually crying out for help against their thuggish scumbag PA/Hamas rulers?
We are. It's about letting the Palestinians come home from their Nakba from the Israeli expulsions. Israel stands in the way of that.
No you're not. You're silent on Palestinian oppression when Israel cannot be blamed.
Any time Lebanese Apartheid is mentioned, you claim that's an example of colonial Israeli Apartheid.
You won't ever say a word about that.
If Israel would let the Palestinians come home at least to a Palestinian state, free of Israeli aggression and illegal settlers, then there would be no kvetching about the Jordananian political system.
There won't be any kvetching from you about Palestinians being oppressed by either Hamas, the PA, Jordan, or Lebanon.
Just as there's none now.
You'll let them rot.
Israel says that it is a close ally of the USA and look at the horrible state of affairs that it is allowed to visit on the heads of the captive Palestinian population every day.
That's double-talk for Israeli self-defense being illegal in any way against terrorist aggression (which you actually defend by calling it self-defense and fighting back).
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)sabbat hunter
(6,835 posts)of the citizens of Israel are Arab. They generally do not vote for the Arab parties, that is why they only have 3% of the seats. It would be nice if more of the center-left parties had arab candidates on their member lists though.
If ALL of the people who claim to have been expelled from Israel (including their descendants) came back to Israel, it would be the end of Israel and the beginning of a single state of Palestine. Not to mention that only about 1/3rd of the original people were actually forced to leave by Israeli forces.
the other 2/3rds were either told to leave by arab commanders on the ground or left on their own.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Belgium, Spain, and the Netherlands; all of which including Jordan are constitutional monarchies, in fact most of the 44 are constitutional monarchies as opposed to absolute monarchies
In the case of Jordan at least 150 of the parliamentarians are democratically elected so there may be some other factors, but your concerns are noted
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_sovereign_monarchs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Rania_of_Jordan
sabbat hunter
(6,835 posts)in theory. But unlike other constitutional monarchies (like the UK, Sweden, etc) King Abdullah II has broad sweeping powers, including the ability to rule by decree. He holds both executive and legislative powers. The lower house in their parliament cannot initiate laws, only approve/reject ones that the king proposes. He appoints all 75 members to the upper house, and they must have been members of the government or military (ie men loyal to the King)
So I would not really consider Jordan a working democracy, as the power is really centered on the King.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)sabbat hunter
(6,835 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and 75 appointed ones
King_David
(14,851 posts)LOL
Really?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Unlike all the other democratic monarchies you mentioned.
There is absolutely no comparison.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but I'm sure you're not one of those right?
King_David
(14,851 posts)But I'll grant you there are as many Arab countries that are democracies as there are Arab countries with equality of their LGBT populations.
Jordan is not a democracy nor is Saudi Arabia , both run by dictatorial Monarchs.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)more than 30 years ahead of Israel
King_David
(14,851 posts)That they should settle for anything less than total freedom because it jives with someone's political beliefs about the Jewish State.
Jordan is a tin pot dictatorship, the King should be defrocked and the Jordanians should be allowed to taste freedom like they deserve .
Who are you to tell them to settle for some right wing anti- progressive monarchist dictatorship ?
Khalid Kamhawi
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/jordan-elections-democratic-boycotted
King_David
(14,851 posts)And be satisfied with no rights because some "progressives" in the west have decided that they should shut up about their lot in life because it doesn't jive with their AntiZionist views?
Do Jordanian Gays not deserve human rights because some "progressives" say
Oh Jordan "legalized being gay".
Well so did Russia legalize being gay.Fuck Russia and all the Homophobic Middle East states and territories .
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/jordan-homosexuality-gay-lesbian-rights-lgbt-conservative.html#
These backward countries and territories who discriminate against Gays such as Russia and Jordan and Gaza and Palestine may be ok with you but it's certanly anything but democratic or progressive or left wing--- it's extreme right wing hateful homophobia.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Alabama, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas, and Utah have yet to repeal or strike down their state's sodomy laws, although these are unenforceable since the US Supreme Court ruling.
Since September 20, 2011, gays, lesbians, and bisexuals have been able to serve openly.[78] Transgender and intersex service-members however are still banned from serving openly, due to Department of Defense medical policies which consider gender identity disorder to be a medically disqualifying condition.[79]
There is no federal statute addressing employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Protections at the national level are limited.
Housing discrimination refers to discrimination against potential or current tenants by landlords. In the United States, there is no federal law against such discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, but at least twenty-one states and many major cities have enacted laws prohibiting it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States#Anti-discrimination_laws
sexual orientation and gender identity were added to the hate crimes list via the Matthew Shepard act which was passed as a rider of the national defense bill
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd,_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act
King_David
(14,851 posts)A homophobic dictatorship at that.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)And they have a Municipal vote in Saudi Arabia .... And Gaza too once ...Jordan is in good company .
All Great Democracy's
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
26. They have "elections " in Iran too and Zimbabwe
View profile
And they have a Municipal vote in Saudi Arabia .... And Gaza too once ...Jordan is in good company .
All Great Democracy's
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113490599#post26
King_David
(14,851 posts)But if you want to talk about Arab countries that are democratic... Please name one .
You can use Google if you want or call a friend....
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but your commentary here speaks for itself
King_David
(14,851 posts)You actually think Saudi Arabia or Gaza are Democratic?
How about North Korea ?
King_David
(14,851 posts)Can you rewrite it without the echo please.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Jordan on the other hand is a dictatorship.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)mainly anything to denigrate the fact that Jordan has given citizenship to millions of Palestinians well except for when it is used as Jordan is Palestine that is
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)none the wheel spinning negotiations, and diplomatic talks can change that single fact, Israel's occupation of the WB would have ended long ago but for US interference
sabbat hunter
(6,835 posts)is legal under international law. The settlements on the other hand are not.
There is a difference between the two.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)without the US's support
sabbat hunter
(6,835 posts)I meant to reply to Daneel
shira
(30,109 posts)Why repeat what you know to be false?