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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:14 AM Mar 2015

Palestinians protest planned Jerusalem evictions

JERUSALEM (AFP) -- Dozens of Palestinians and foreign supporters protested in East Jerusalem's walled Old City on Sunday against the threatened eviction of a Palestinian family to make way for Jewish settlers.

"No to the eviction of the Sub Laban family," read banners carried by demonstrators, referring to the eight occupants of the house near the flashpoint Al-Aqsa Mosque compound, a site holy to both Muslims and Jews.

Rafat Sub Laban, who lives there with his parents, his sister and his brother's wife and children, said the family have rented their home since 1953 when the Old City was ruled by Jordan.

Israeli authorities issued an eviction order in September which is currently under appeal, but settlers backed by police tried to gain possession last week, he said.

http://www.maannews.com/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=760047

ICJ 2004 advisory ruling:
** The Court concludes that all these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied
territories and that Israel has continued to have the status of occupying power.
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf
21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Palestinians protest planned Jerusalem evictions (Original Post) Jefferson23 Mar 2015 OP
"...have rented their home since 1953 when the Old City was ruled by Jordan." oberliner Mar 2015 #1
and exactly what do Jordan's actions 67 yrs ago have to do with a Palestinian family being evicted azurnoir Mar 2015 #2
They were renting the property oberliner Mar 2015 #3
More: One law for Jews, another for Arabs azurnoir Mar 2015 #6
Well, tell you what. Scootaloo Mar 2015 #4
On the contrary... android fan Mar 2015 #5
When you use an excerpt from a source on the internet, it should accompany a link, or people Jefferson23 Mar 2015 #7
a parable for you guillaumeb Mar 2015 #8
Seems like option #2 makes the most sense. oberliner Mar 2015 #9
so illegal dispossession is fine with you? guillaumeb Mar 2015 #10
Oh you would be surprised what is supported here in the name of peace..or maybe Jefferson23 Mar 2015 #11
not at all guillaumeb Mar 2015 #13
You gave me a hypothetical scenario oberliner Mar 2015 #12
so all the First Peoples dispossessed by the US should have moved back to Asia? guillaumeb Mar 2015 #14
Apoologists make poor excuses. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2015 #16
and even worse logicians guillaumeb Mar 2015 #17
. R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2015 #18
Three cheers for Apartheid and ethnic cleansing! R. Daneel Olivaw Mar 2015 #15
This is a clear example of apartheid. Little Tich Mar 2015 #19
Nothing you have written here is accurate oberliner Mar 2015 #20
Prove me wrong then... Little Tich Mar 2015 #21
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
1. "...have rented their home since 1953 when the Old City was ruled by Jordan."
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:24 AM
Mar 2015

That would be during the time when Jordan occupied the Old City of Jerusalem and evicted every Jew who lived there, destroyed each of the thirty-plus synagogues, and desecrated centuries old Jewish cemeteries and other religious structures.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
2. and exactly what do Jordan's actions 67 yrs ago have to do with a Palestinian family being evicted
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:33 AM
Mar 2015

in the present?

It could almost appear that there is some sort of justification for evicting Palestinians or something

oberliner
1. "...have rented their home since 1953 when the Old City was ruled by Jordan."

View profile
That would be during the time when Jordan occupied the Old City of Jerusalem and evicted every Jew who lived there, destroyed each of the thirty-plus synagogues, and desecrated centuries old Jewish cemeteries and other religious structures

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113497965#post1

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
6. More: One law for Jews, another for Arabs
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 01:17 PM
Mar 2015

so you're right the new owner-Israel which has been evicting Arab families from houses previously owned by Jews

Three generations of the Sub Laban live in the home. It was owned by Jews until 1948, after which the Jordanian custodian rented it to them in the 1950s. After 1967, the home came under the control of Israel’s General Custodian, which worked tirelessly to expel the family. Today, 80 Jewish families affiliated with Ateret Cohanim in the Muslim and Christian quarters of the Old City. All of them live in homes from which Palestinian tenants were previously evicted.

Eighty families, which means approximately 500 Jews. When 33,000 Palestinians live in both the Muslim and Christian quarters, there is no doubt that this will remain a Palestinian area in the future. The families of Ateret Cohanim, on the other hand, are backed by the state, which profoundly strengthens their presence: the guards are armed by the state, tourism projects are funded by the state, the violent Jerusalem Day march is supported by the state.


http://972mag.com/palestinian-family-under-threat-of-eviction-by-settlers/104674/
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
4. Well, tell you what.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 12:32 PM
Mar 2015

How about someone in Israel be evicted from one of the hundreds of thousands of homes confiscated from displaced Palestinians, and these Jerusalemites can live there! Israel can rebuild one of the hundreds of demolished or ruined mosques for them to worship at.

What becomes of the evicted Israelis? I'unno. Put 'em in a refugee camp somewhere for seventy years i guess, is it important?

 

android fan

(214 posts)
5. On the contrary...
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 12:53 PM
Mar 2015

It has been charged that the provision contained in the Israel-Palestinian Interim Agreement prohibiting unilateral steps that alter the status of the West Bank implies a ban on settlement activity. This position is disingenuous. The prohibition on unilateral measures was designed to ensure that neither side take steps that would change the legal status of this territory (such as by annexation or a unilateral declaration of statehood), pending the outcome of permanent status talks. The building of homes has no effect on the final permanent status of the area as a whole. Were this prohibition to be applied to building, it would lead to the unreasonable interpretation that neither side is permitted to build houses to accommodate the needs of their respective communities.

As the Israeli claim to these territories is legally valid, it is just as legitimate for Israelis to build their communities as it is for the Palestinians to build theirs. Yet in the spirit of compromise, successive Israeli governments have indicated their willingness to negotiate the issue and have adopted a voluntary freeze on the building of new settlements as a confidence-building measure.

Furthermore, Israel had established its settlements in the West Bank in accordance with international law. Attempts have been made to claim that the settlements violate Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, which forbids a state from deporting or transferring "parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies." However, this allegation has no validity in law as Israeli citizens were neither deported nor transferred to the territories.

Although Israel has voluntarily taken upon itself the obligation to uphold the humanitarian provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel maintains that the Convention (which deals with occupied territories) was not applicable to the disputed territory. As there had been no internationally recognized legal sovereign in either the West Bank or Gaza prior to the 1967 Six Day War, they cannot be considered to have become "occupied territory" when control passed into the hands of Israel.

Yet even if the Fourth Geneva Convention were to apply to the territories, Article 49 would not be relevant to the issue of Jewish settlements. The Convention was drafted immediately following the Second World War, against the background of the massive forced population transfers that occurred during that period. As the International Red Cross' authoritative commentary to the Convention confirms, Article 49 (entitled "Deportations, Transfers, Evacuations&quot was intended to prevent the forcible transfer of civilians, thereby protecting the local population from displacement. Israel has not forcibly transferred its citizens to the territory and the Convention does not place any prohibition on individuals voluntarily choosing their place of residence. Moreover, the settlements are not intended to displace Arab inhabitants, nor do they do so in practice. According to independent surveys, the built-up areas of the settlements (not including roads or unpopulated adjacent tracts) take up about 3% of the total territory of the West Bank.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
7. When you use an excerpt from a source on the internet, it should accompany a link, or people
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 03:27 PM
Mar 2015

might believe you wrote it.

http://zionism-israel.com/issues/are_settlements_legal.html

Whoever wrote this nonsense is either unaware of international law, and the US
position or perhaps they just don't care what crap they post..I don't know.

I could not find any names associated with the website, just
a general description under the guise of volunteers as authors.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/about.htm

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
8. a parable for you
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 04:44 PM
Mar 2015

Once there was a fan of androids who owned 100 acres of farmland. This person fought with his bad neighbor and the bad neighbor put up a fence blocking android fan from access to 78 of the 100 acres. This Bad neighbor also erected structures, diverted the creek so that android fan had no access to water, and planted crops on the illegally seized land.

Bad neighbor has been found to be in violation of the law and he ignores the law.

What would you counsel android fan to do?

1) forget about the land. You did not properly develop it anyway.
2) Move somewhere else and hope it does not happen again.
3) wait over 66 years as the world community does nothing because bad neighbor is friends with biggest neighbor?
4) fight back

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
9. Seems like option #2 makes the most sense.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 04:53 PM
Mar 2015

Throughout history various groups of people have been forced to leave their homes and start over somewhere else.

For example, European Jews.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
10. so illegal dispossession is fine with you?
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:02 PM
Mar 2015

might makes right now trumps International Law?

Your position would eliminate all law in favor of war. You might want to rethink.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
11. Oh you would be surprised what is supported here in the name of peace..or maybe
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 05:46 PM
Mar 2015

not surprised at all.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
12. You gave me a hypothetical scenario
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 07:19 PM
Mar 2015

If I were a Palestinian living in East Jerusalem and the conditions you described were taking place, I would probably move to Ramallah if I could.

Just like if I was a Jew living in East Jerusalem back before it was annexed by Jordan, I would have moved to Tel Aviv.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
14. so all the First Peoples dispossessed by the US should have moved back to Asia?
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 09:39 PM
Mar 2015

and back through history until everyone was living in the Rift Valley?

Sounds like an excuse and rather disgusting rationale for dispossession and genocide.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
19. This is a clear example of apartheid.
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 10:33 PM
Mar 2015

Only Arabs get evicted, and also not given alternative housing, as that would negate the whole idea of evicting them in the first place. If the same rule applied equally, then perhaps Israel could evict those Jewish families in Western Jerusalem living on JNF lands, which actually is mostly stolen Palestinian lands. After all, there is a severe housing shortage for Arabs in East Jerusalem. But then again, two wrongs don’t make a right.

By making itself an illegal occupier in its own capital, Israel’s insistence on an undivided Jerusalem becomes just an empty slogan. Almost every single Jewish person living in East Jerusalem is living there illegally, and could be evicted. Now, if Jews and Arabs in EJ were treated equally and were living in mixed neighbourhoods, it would be quite difficult to dislodge Jews from their homes; it would be apartheid to do so.

I can’t see an easy fix to this.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
20. Nothing you have written here is accurate
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 10:47 PM
Mar 2015

Jews get evicted for building without permits.
Arabs are often given alternate housing.
Western Jerusalem is not mostly stolen Palestinian lands.
There is not a severe housing shortage for Arabs in East Jerusalem.

Literally every single thing you have written in your post is not true.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
21. Prove me wrong then...
Mon Mar 23, 2015, 11:03 PM
Mar 2015

It would actually be better if I was wrong, so if you could, I would really appreciate it.

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