Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
12 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
3. I really thought they'd just leave Prop 8 standing, but take up one of the
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:04 PM
Dec 2012

Doma's...they'll both be 5-4 decisions for sure....only hope is Kennedy has a lucid day when he decides.

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
6. You'd think our chances would be better with a gay SCOTUS Chief Justice...
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:34 PM
Dec 2012

And yes, I am series-es!

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
8. Well, not to harp on it, but he got a pre-made family when he was nominated...
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 06:07 PM
Dec 2012

Sort of like Charlie Crist...

beyurslf

(6,755 posts)
5. Doesn't it just take 4 to hear it?
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 05:21 PM
Dec 2012

I wouldn't take that as a bad sign. we have 4 terrible justices on every major issue. Kennedy is the key.

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
9. Call me crazy but I have a good feeling.
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:52 PM
Dec 2012

It's much more likely for this court to air on the side of free speech/expression than against it. I'll call it 6-3 pro-equality, with Kennedy and Roberts joining the future.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
10. I'm cautiously optimistic. The arguments in the cases they'll be
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:56 PM
Dec 2012

hearing are on solid constitutional grounds. It's going to be very, very difficult to decide otherwise, I think. I'm hopeful we're right on this, but I'm just optimistic, not certain.

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
11. We can't be certain
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 08:58 PM
Dec 2012

But if it helps, a future SJC case can always overturn it if need be. Think Plessy v Ferguson.

ShadowLiberal

(2,237 posts)
12. I agree we have a good chance, but I think we're looking at a 5 to 4 win, not 6 to 3
Fri Dec 7, 2012, 10:46 PM
Dec 2012

I'm much more pessimistic about Kennedy siding with us then Roberts for a few reasons.

1) Kennedy is 76, Roberts is 57, age is a strong indicator of support for gay rights, demographically someone like Roberts is more likely to support it then Kennedy. Kennedy has also gotten more conservative over the last decade, another reason to think he won't side with us.

2) Think long term, like Justice Roberts did in the ACA ruling. Assume the worst happens and we lose both cases, what's the worst outcome we could expect?
2A) On Prop H8 we put it back on the ballot in 2014, and VERY likely win, overturning the courts ruling. We could have won in 2012 if we put it on the ballot.
2B1) On DOMA, the court upholds the whole law as constitutional. Congress starts to push more strongly to repeal DOMA as gay rights/marriage support clearly continues to grow. Give it enough time, democrats control both houses of congress and overturn it. We might not even need full control of the government, we won gay marriage in New York with a republican controlled senate, and I could see a republican president beyond 2016 fear for the party's long term demographic success and their reelection in 2020 that they have to support a repeal of DOMA. Plus, lower courts will likely continue assault different parts of DOMA, forcing the supreme court to almost certainly take up the DOMA case again.

3) Because of 2), if you're Justice Roberts, do you want to preside over a major civil rights court ruling, only to see your ruling overturned in the next decade (either by being outvoted in the court in later years, or by the legislature undoing your ruling)? I don't think he does.

4) Roberts has been pro-business, and some businesses have been urging the Supreme Court to overturn DOMA in order to get a national standard for marriage that's consistent across state lines, to make it easier to plan/run businesses that operate in multiple states.

Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»LGBT»SCOTUS will hear the Prop...