MIRT has taken care of the newbies but there are still some out of our reach. We have taken the necessary steps to inform the proper people for disposition so we shall see.

make the switch to "she".

Sheesh. LGBT don't get much better friends than me. I back you folks up 100%.

When someone expresses a preference in gender pronouns, you switch immediately. If you are talking face-to-face with someone occasional slips are more acceptable since some of that is habit.

But when you post something online you have all the time in the world to re-read it before posting, so there is no excuse for continuing to use male pronouns once the request has been made to use female pronouns.

I know. That makes me an evil person.

Apparently in legal proceedings she is still "he" and "Bradley", until she legally changes her name.

between formal documents (e.g. if you are a judge or an official of the court, etc.) in which case the legal status matters - and informally discussing those same documents or proceedings.

I use s/he, but ONLY when I don't know, or have not been asked to use, a specific gender (like on DU with ambiguous screen names).

Once I've been told someone's preferred pronouns, I use them - which is consistent with the AP style manual for reporting. If I'm quoting a formal document (or even informal report in which the person's preferred pronouns were ignored) I either try to quote a portion without pronouns, bracket a correction, or label it (sic). The bracketing is often my preference - but doesn't work so well on DU because the bracket I normally use is the same one which marks HTML tags.

In all but formal legal proceedings (where you - specifically - have a duty to be legally accurate), a good general guideline is that people's feelings are more important than legal status, so go with what they ask for.

discuss whether or not she had the automatic right to receive reassignment surgery in prison - just a couple of hours after the announcement. But you'd never know that by the hysterical response to that post, which I deleted to avoid continuing to offend people who I was NOT discussing.

Just before my friend told her boss that she was a transwoman, she had the experience of being in the cafeteria with the TV on when a particularly masculine looking woman came on a talk show. Everyone around her started giggling and cracking jokes, and generally insulting trans* people - never realizing that about a month later their co-worker (and in some cases supervisor) was a transwoman. That is what trans* people experience every day - even after transition.

So when you talk about Chelsea in a way that is not respectful of her expressed gender preference, you are sending the message to every trans* person who reads it that they don't deserve your respect. In the context of someone who has expressed a preferred gender pronoun, s/he is extraordinarily offensive because it is too close to one of the main words people use to dismiss trans* individuals - "he-she," a word of ridicule. The reaction was probably stronger to that particular word choice than had you merely used masculine pronouns.

You must have had at least one experience of sitting in the room hearing yourself discussed in the form of someone else with whom shared a characteristic that was distasteful to the speaker. That is what the reaction was about. Even though you may have thought you were talking only about Chelsea, the way you talked about Chelsea really sends a message to all trans* individuals who read it.

of Ann Coulter on this site, using similar vile terms, with certain veteran DUers calling her a "trannie" because of her prominent Adam's Apple. I alerted on a particularly offensive post and was ridiculed for so doing. Those DUers (still here) are on my IL.

and the post that Trumad had made and I was a bit disappointed. But sometimes we have to look further and assume that maybe someone just doesn't know. Trumad made a new OP and I felt he was being honest in wanting to be educated.

LGBT people are immersed in this stuff everyday and sometimes we can be too reactionary to someone WHO IS A REGULAR and who has never shown this type of post before.

I'm sure you can relate, I've read your Vet posts and how people have attacked you because they read something on-line and the hell with facts or education.

I wish I had commented on your post at the time, it wouldn't have been an attack post like the ones you received because I don't think you meant any offense for that I am sorry.

I'm not an apologist for bad behavior but sometimes people need to clarify something they've read from the poster. Just accusing someone causes hurt feelings and then anger and it serves no purpose. It is easy to misunderstand the printed word.

On the other hand, LGBT folk are sick to death of juries allowing hateful posts and adding even more hateful comments themselves in their juror decisions.

I'm sorry that people in this group feel betrayed by the Admins and fellow DU'ers because LGBT people have to live this crap everyday here and in the real world.

Have a good night.

WTF is going on DU? How the hell transphobic bigots get away with their filth is beyond me.

I am so sorry, I wish I could do something more than just keep apologising for what is allowed to stand.

Seriously.

How can so many people call themselves Democrats and be so fucking ignorant and bigoted!

I seriously need to take a shower because I feel dirty from just reading that crap.

Transgendered people are easy targets for bullies; thus, the disgrace they pull DU through every day.

Not sure how Skinner and Earl feel about it, but they can't be all that happy.

They choose not to. Repeatedly. Despite suggestions at modifications I personally have made since the beta days of DU3 - and suggestions others have made as well.

FWIW - their (or at least Skinner's) repeated responses to me have been along the lines of "it really isn't that bad."

"For what it's worth, when I look at DU today, I see almost universal condemnation of transphobia, and I see almost universal support for treating transgendered people with respect."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=3077

Obviously, we see things through different lenses.

I hadn't seen this.

I'd been looking, since I have two posts awaiting a response - but I missed it as well.

I know, it sounds funny from someone with about a dozen posts, but I have probably been lurking and reading here as far back as 2005 or 2006. I've seen my share of what LGBT's have endured here over the years. It's a big part of why I've posted so little, and, I think have made all of one post outside of this group so far. Why would I post outside of this area? What reason do I have to feel safe out there?

I have time and time again been shocked and hurt over what I've seen here over the last three days. The posts I've seen time and time again are the kind of hateful, hurtful shit I expect to see in comments to Yahoo! articles, or CNN.com, or even Freeperville. I've lost count of how many times I've scrolled back up to the top of the page or checked the URL to make sure I was on the right site. "Yep. I guess this IS DU. Says so. Could've fooled me..."

But then, maybe I am the fool for being fooled. It's just the same ol' song and dance here at DU. When it's time to tap the GayTM or get us to GayOTV, well, let's mend fences. The rest of the time, it's FU for us LGBT's at DU.

I had to alert on a post this morning. First time I've ever alerted on a post here. Oh, sure, there have been many times in the past I'd wanted to. But this one was so appalling that I just felt there was no choice. I know, though, that I can expect it to wind up being kept, and at least one of the jurors personally attacking me. After all, it seems that how DU rolls anymore - especially when we try to stand up to the transhatred that has become all the rage here this week.

What has gone down here this week is exactly why it took me years to finally register an account, and then months after that to even post at all. Really. Why would I want to be here? Why would I want to be in a place where I probably have a bullseye on my ass in 99% of the forums/groups?

What I've seen this week has made me think back to something I said so many times in the last 12 or so years. It'd be election time. I'd have friends on both sides of the aisle (though, for obvious reasons, I now have far fewer Republican friends than I used to) nagging me. Vote for "their" guy. Vote for "their" party. And it would seem, more often than not, that both the D and the R were anti-LGBT equality. So, I would paraphrase the most famous player from the old XFL, Rod Smart. I'd tell them "Yeah. I look at the Republican, and I think 'He hate me.' And now, I'm looking at the Democrat, thinking 'He hate me too.'"

Well, good job on the part of the bigots on our "side" here at DU this week. Because for the last few days, I've found myself thinking about the typical Freeper. "He hate me". And now I look at the bigotry here over Chelsea Manning, think of the typical DU'er, and find myself thinking "Yeah. He hate me, too."

Meet the new DU. Same as the old DU. Indeed.

Though, I'm sure one day soon, Skinner will be back to "mend some more fences". Forget the fences. Maybe it's just time for him to start taking out the trash.

Same goes for the rampant misogyny.

if any gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered people feel unwelcome here, it would be understandable and maybe even better if they stopped participating here - I say that as an unapologetic 100% gay man and Democrat.

Obviously, I think it's worth trying to fix the issues you have problems with, but I mean, failing a successful outcome to such attempts.

Thanks for the post.

Last edited Thu Aug 22, 2013, 10:08 PM - Edit history (1)

My wish is that those who feel so passionately about addressing the homophobia, transbigotry and misogyny on DU exert as much energy to address these issues in the "real world" on a daily basis, rather than trying to fix something on this website that will never go away.

Please don't let this place distract you from the work that needs to be accomplished on the ground. Lives are not being saved or transformed on this website.

Real change happens when you help human beings, not anonymous screen names.

I'm not sure why you believe otherwise.

This way those of us in MIRT can make sure the Admins see it.

Someone bragged about still holding the same position, and feeling sorry for all those who voted to hide his post (which insisted that Chelsea Manning was a man) and doubled down - repeating that Manning is a man until surgically altered...

The jury voted to leave it 6-0 because he said it so respectfully - here are their comments:

beyond redemption, but they are damned clever in their posts. Butter wouldn't melt in their mouth.

It's a long sad road full of a lot of injustices, but at the least the USA moves in the right direction.

It's been less than a week for Chelsea Manning. plus she's in the military prison and the first trans they will have to learn not to discriminate against. Imagine how harsh the phobia is there!

Once the case settles down. 'Author Manning' would be an awesome new career!

Though you may have a point, as far as our influence on other countries is concerned. Just saying that some folks are way ahead of us on this - hell, Denmark legalized civil partnerships for gay couples way back in 1989!