Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,457 posts)
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 03:35 PM Nov 2017

Where to Draw Line on Free Speech? Wedding Cake Case Vexes Lawyers

Hat tip, SCOTUSblog: Monday round-up

Recommended Citation: Edith Roberts, Monday round-up, SCOTUSblog (Nov. 6, 2017, 6:59 AM), http://www.scotusblog.com/2017/11/monday-round-up-370/

POLITICS

Where to Draw Line on Free Speech? Wedding Cake Case Vexes Lawyers

By ADAM LIPTAK NOV. 6, 2017

WASHINGTON — Floyd Abrams is the nation’s most prominent First Amendment lawyer, and he almost always argues in favor of free speech. But he has struggled with the case of a Colorado baker who refused to create a wedding cake for a gay couple. ... Charged with discrimination, the baker said that forcing him to bake a cake for a same-sex wedding would hijack his constitutional right to express himself. Mr. Abrams’s first impulse was to agree.

“At first blush, the position of the baker had a good deal of appeal to me,” he said. “There was and is no reason to doubt his position was one of conscience, and the visage of state-ordered creation of what could be viewed as some sort of artistic offering certainly set some First Amendment flags flying.”

“But the more I thought about it,” Mr. Abrams said, “the more I thought of other possibilities. Could a painter invite the public to his gallery at which he painted portraits of them for a fee but refused to paint black people? Could a musician invite the world to his studio where he wrote songs about them for a fee but refused to do so for Jews or Muslims? The First Amendment protects a lot, but not that conduct.”

In the end, Mr. Abrams signed a brief supporting the gay couple, David Mullins and Charlie Craig. It was one of close to 100 friend-of-the-court briefs filed in the case, an extraordinary number. Among the most interesting ones are from deeply committed First Amendment experts who have struggled to find the right balance between protected expression and unlawful discrimination. ... The case, Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, No. 16-111, will be argued before the Supreme Court next month. It has tested deep and longstanding commitments to free speech, and it has divided old allies.
2 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Where to Draw Line on Free Speech? Wedding Cake Case Vexes Lawyers (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Nov 2017 OP
What cake could they refuse to make? zipplewrath Nov 2017 #1
What about cakes for weddings in religions other than their own? cyclonefence Nov 2017 #2

zipplewrath

(16,646 posts)
1. What cake could they refuse to make?
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 03:44 PM
Nov 2017

Could a baker refuse to make a cake for the KKK? Could they refuse to make a cake in the shape of a swastika?
How about in the shape of a crucifix? How about a naked lady?

The real dividing line here is the two basic criteria in my mind. 1) Is this a business? If it is, you have to run it like the government says. 2) Against whom may you discriminate? In essence, if you are a "protected class", we can prevent you from discriminating. And that can be just about anything we want it to be, within the confines of the constitution. We can protect professions, people, races, and to some extent religion. So you can refuse to make the cake for the KKK, because we don't recognize them as any sort of special protected class. But you have to make the crucifix cake because we protect people based upon religion.

This is meant to be simplistic and one can discuss the nuances. But once we recognized gay marriage as a fundamental right, it became protected. Which mean if you make heterosexual wedding cakes, you have to make gay ones too.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
2. What about cakes for weddings in religions other than their own?
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 04:09 PM
Nov 2017

If the objection to making a cake--which, after all, is *not* part of the wedding itself and therefore has *no* religious significance--lies in the bakers' believing that the marriage which it celebrates is not Bible-sanctioned because the spouses are not recognized as worthy to marry, are they protected if they refuse to make a wedding cake for any non-Christian couple? Can they refuse to bake a cake for a bris?

Latest Discussions»Alliance Forums»LGBT»Where to Draw Line on Fre...