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niyad

(113,587 posts)
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:10 PM May 2013

what do dress codes say about girls' bodies?


What Do Dress Codes Say About Girls’ Bodies?

You’re not going out dressed like that!”

“What mother would let her child wear such a short skirt?”

Think about it: How often do we police girls’ bodies? Recent talk of school dress codes reveals that it happens an awful lot, and for some confused reasons.
After a New Jersey middle school banned strapless dresses from a school dance, more schools have been making headlines with various clothing bans and restrictions. Some of these bans focus on attire for dances while others target daily wear such as yoga pants and low-cut tops. All, however, focus only on girls’ clothing, and most of these restrictions are put in place to avoid “distracting” other students (i.e. the boys).

The concern for overly exposed young bodies may be well-intentioned. With society fetishizing girls at younger and younger ages, girls are instructed to self-objectify and see themselves as sexual objects, something to be looked at. A laundry list of problems can come from obsessing over one’s appearance: eating disorders, depression, low self-worth. Who wouldn’t want to spare her daughter from these struggles?
But these dress codes fall short of being legitimately helpful. What we fail to consider when enforcing restrictions on skirt-length and the tightness of pants is the girls themselves—not just their clothes, but their thoughts, emotions, budding sexuality and self-image.

Instead, these restrictions are executed with distracted boys in mind, casting girls as inherent sexual threats needing to be tamed. Dress restrictions in schools contribute to the very problem they aim to solve: the objectification of young girls. When you tell a girl what to wear (or force her to cover up with an oversized T-shirt), you control her body. When you control a girl’s body—even if it is ostensibly for her “own good”—you take away her agency. You tell her that her body is not her own.
When you deem a girl’s dress “inappropriate,” you’re also telling her, “Because your body may distract boys, your body is inappropriate. Cover it up.” You recontextualize her body; she now exists through the male gaze.

. . .

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2013/05/24/what-do-dress-codes-say-about-girls-bodies/
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
what do dress codes say about girls' bodies? (Original Post) niyad May 2013 OP
It says "Because males can't control their dicks, females must dress modestly." muntrv May 2013 #1
pretty much. niyad May 2013 #2
See my post below fitman May 2013 #4
Girls/women are taking it too far fitman May 2013 #3
so, because men have these reactions, women should change how they dress? I notice you niyad May 2013 #5
Actually fitman May 2013 #6
so, you get to decide what is appropriate for others, what is "the time and place"? why? niyad May 2013 #7
Well you have your opinion fitman May 2013 #9
what it tells me is exactly what the article is talking about. we police women and girls in their niyad May 2013 #15
We males are very visual creatures fitman May 2013 #30
No. Women are more aroused by visual cues. Women just aren't socialized to think redqueen May 2013 #31
I don't believe you... Bay Boy May 2013 #8
please take pics of the guys, as well. to be fair and objective, of course. niyad May 2013 #16
I guess that's fair. Bay Boy May 2013 #22
hmmm, one wonders why that is. niyad May 2013 #23
I've only wondered why Bay Boy May 2013 #24
auditioning for the ads? niyad May 2013 #25
you want I should kick some nekked Captain Morgan-posing ass, Bay Boy? Skittles May 2013 #28
Yes, please! Bay Boy May 2013 #29
This is the money quote from the article JustAnotherGen May 2013 #10
Those gym rats fitman May 2013 #13
I don't doubt it JustAnotherGen May 2013 #14
"All, however, focus only on girls’ clothing" jeff47 May 2013 #11
I think you might need to work in a high school to get the context. noamnety May 2013 #12
okay, you are stating that the media has a great deal to do with this. how about addressing the niyad May 2013 #17
How about requiring asses to be covered in school? noamnety May 2013 #18
when I was in school (back before the earth's crust cooled), people were actually fully clothed. niyad May 2013 #19
"can the schools address the media?" redqueen May 2013 #20
I know, that silly optimism, right? niyad May 2013 #26
This official sanctioning of the primacy of the male gaze has to stop. redqueen May 2013 #21
looking even at some of the posts in this thread makes that seem quite unlikely. niyad May 2013 #27
Yeah. It can be awfully discouraging, discussing these issues. redqueen May 2013 #32
funny, I was just thinking about watching that movie the other night. will definitely have to niyad May 2013 #33
 

fitman

(482 posts)
3. Girls/women are taking it too far
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:18 PM
May 2013

For instance, girls/women at my gym are wearing nearly next to nothing..tight skimpy booty shorts that hookers used to wear that go up their ass crack and they don't wear any panties or thongs underneath and major camel toe and skimpy sports bras..


Listen, I am not a prude but it's getting out of hand...I love women's bodies but,

we do need to tone the sexualization of our culture back few notches..men and women.

I have seen women wear these to my gym on a regular basis

[img][/img]

niyad

(113,587 posts)
5. so, because men have these reactions, women should change how they dress? I notice you
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:22 PM
May 2013

didn't say anything about how men dress. it was only about girls/women "taking it too far"--and, since they are at the gym, what do you suggest they wear?

again, they are AT THE GYM.

your post is pretty much exactly what the article was talking about. because you react--women should dress a certain way to prevent your reaction.

I saw a guy running yesterday, whose shoes were almost bigger than his little jogging "shorts". amazingly enough, did not elicit any sort of response on my part, except to wonder whether he had enough sunblock on (it was a REALLY hot, sunny day)

 

fitman

(482 posts)
6. Actually
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:26 PM
May 2013

the men dress in long baggy gym shorts and t-shirts...once in a while a guy will cut his t-shirt down to "singlet" but they usually get laughed at and never do it again.


I have no problem with women wearing gym shorts/t-shirts and regular sports bras..

I love my wife in skimpy panties and sexy bra's but there is a time and place.


 

fitman

(482 posts)
9. Well you have your opinion
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:46 PM
May 2013

and I have mine but the gym I work out at is a university gym (open to the public) and when nearly all the 18-22 year old ultra horny men say the "dress code" of some of the women is getting out of hand....well that tells you something.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
15. what it tells me is exactly what the article is talking about. we police women and girls in their
Mon May 27, 2013, 10:51 PM
May 2013

attire because MALES respond in a certain way. how about we talk about why the males respond this way, and why we should be caving in to their complete lack of self-control?

 

fitman

(482 posts)
30. We males are very visual creatures
Wed May 29, 2013, 11:17 AM
May 2013

Get a pretty women in sexy attire and we act differently around women,,we stare and think impure thoughts and start slobbering ..we act with our penis and balls..testosterine does that..sorry if that offends you. We are different than you in that aspect.

That being said 99% of us have enough self control/morals that we don't rape/molest etc but some don't.

Look niyad, I am far from a prude butI still have a problem with the sexualization of both sexes in today's culture and do have a problem with 13-15 year old girls walking around with tight booty shorts with the word "juicy" printed on the back and I now that vast majority of people, liberal and conservative think the same way.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
31. No. Women are more aroused by visual cues. Women just aren't socialized to think
Wed May 29, 2013, 03:44 PM
May 2013

that other people should have to deal with our reactions, that anyone cares to hear about them, or that anyone else should tailor their actions based on our level of arousal, much less feel threatened because we become aroused.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

This information is not new.

Bay Boy

(1,689 posts)
8. I don't believe you...
Mon May 27, 2013, 12:38 PM
May 2013

...I need the address of the gym. I will then go check it out and report back.

Bay Boy

(1,689 posts)
22. I guess that's fair.
Tue May 28, 2013, 01:32 PM
May 2013

But I'm not taking any pics in the men's locker room. Guys have a habit of striking the Captain Morgan's pose when they are naked.

Skittles

(153,202 posts)
28. you want I should kick some nekked Captain Morgan-posing ass, Bay Boy?
Tue May 28, 2013, 09:53 PM
May 2013

I CAN MAKE THEM CEASE THAT BEHAVIOR I TELL YOU

JustAnotherGen

(31,907 posts)
10. This is the money quote from the article
Mon May 27, 2013, 01:14 PM
May 2013
Asking girls to cover up is a Band-Aid solution to far more socially ingrained problems such as general misogyny and rape culture. As long as a girl or woman is always sexualized, it won’t matter how much she covers up—she’ll still be faulted for her inappropriate behavior.


So up thread I noted someone took this faaaar off topic to what GROWN women wear to the gym. (raised eyebrow here)

If women wear big baggy XL sweatpants some dumb ass will say it turns him on.

And don't get me started on sex fetishes with grown women dressed as school girls in plaid uniforms.

Regardless of what any of us wear - some asshole will find fault with it.

Can we have a discussion about men with gross chests going topless while mowing their lawn in the summer? How it causes me to get out of control with vomiting? How they should cover up because it might cause a woman to say "eeeeeeeeewwwwwwwww". How ball hugging jeans wearing men are asking for it?

Because this is one hell of an article about a topic that is relevant to any of us with daughters or nieces or girls we care about - and to compare the dress code of a junior high school girl with what adderall addicted female gym rats in this thread makes me lose control. I want to go off on someone.
 

fitman

(482 posts)
13. Those gym rats
Mon May 27, 2013, 02:13 PM
May 2013

I was referring to did not learn to dress this way in college..I know plenty of female grade school and HS teachers who tell me how these young girls are dressing as another poster above alluded too.

Most people today, liberal, conservative and in between all agree the sexualization of our society has gone too far and starting way to early.

When thongs are designed for 7-8 year old girls...

JustAnotherGen

(31,907 posts)
14. I don't doubt it
Mon May 27, 2013, 08:05 PM
May 2013

But I wore a white sparkly strapless dress to my 8th grade formal . . . In 1986. Strapless formal dresses are nothing new and certainly not overtly sexual.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. "All, however, focus only on girls’ clothing"
Mon May 27, 2013, 01:30 PM
May 2013

While the overall scheme is anti-girl, this particular part has a non-biased element.

Menfolk don't get nearly as many options in clothing. That results in a much briefer "dress code".

Obviously that does not cover the overall issue.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
12. I think you might need to work in a high school to get the context.
Mon May 27, 2013, 01:42 PM
May 2013

We have a pretty loose dress code in our school, enforced even looser.

But we have girls showing up in shorts that are somewhere between shorts and a thong - with their ass cheeks exposed.

Aside from any sexualization issues, it just grosses me out that their asses are sitting on the toilet seats, picking up urine splashes, then coming into my classroom and sitting on my upholstered chairs - I want a layer of fabric between their butts and my furniture, and I don't think that's too much to ask. I would want the same regardless of gender, age, etc.

I don't see the dress codes as targeting girls especially, I just see the girls routinely pushing the dress code more than boys, as a result of the media pushing the idea that their worth comes from exposing their bodies.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
17. okay, you are stating that the media has a great deal to do with this. how about addressing the
Mon May 27, 2013, 10:54 PM
May 2013

media instead of dictating how the females should dress, to avoid upsetting the males, when that is pretty much what they see around them 24/7?

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
18. How about requiring asses to be covered in school?
Tue May 28, 2013, 06:53 AM
May 2013

Most administrators recognize that they aren't in a position to require the media to do anything.
And they recognize they aren't going to get any farther with teaching 16 year old boys "when you look at naked girls, just don't think of them in a sexualized way."

I've had students debating in my classroom that teens ought to be allowed to come to school in just underwear and bras, because "it covers as much as a swimsuit". Seriously, that conversation in my room was one or two weeks ago.

Would you be okay with a coed classroom, with coed teachers, teaching a room of 14 year old girls in their underwear? What about if the room was filled with topless girls in thongs?

If you were a prospective parent and walked into a room with a 40 year old male teacher in front of a classroom of 12 year old girls in lingerie would you think "hey, that's where I want to send my girl!" ?

niyad

(113,587 posts)
19. when I was in school (back before the earth's crust cooled), people were actually fully clothed.
Tue May 28, 2013, 10:02 AM
May 2013

the fact remains that the impetus for this kind of "dressing" comes from the images with which they are bombarded 24/7. these girls did not, on their own, and out of the blue, decide that such was appropriate clothing.

can the schools address the media? I know that isn't their actual job, but if the major districts (like lausd, etc) got together, maybe they would have some influence.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
20. "can the schools address the media?"
Tue May 28, 2013, 12:08 PM
May 2013

What... you mean address the cause, and not the symptom?

Surely not!

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
21. This official sanctioning of the primacy of the male gaze has to stop.
Tue May 28, 2013, 12:12 PM
May 2013

And objectificationhas to stop being talked around.

It needs to be the central focus.

This is the only way to address the root cause of these issues.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
32. Yeah. It can be awfully discouraging, discussing these issues.
Wed May 29, 2013, 03:50 PM
May 2013
?w=460

I hope you're a fan so you can hear that line in his voice

niyad

(113,587 posts)
33. funny, I was just thinking about watching that movie the other night. will definitely have to
Wed May 29, 2013, 05:44 PM
May 2013

go get it.

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