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snot

(10,524 posts)
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:37 PM Jun 2014

Chemo Brain.

I have a friend, a very dear woman who underwent extensive treatment for cancer several years ago. I'm not close enough to her to know what the treatments were. She's frequently expressing frustration – her memory's shot, she can't navigate how to get to places she's been to many times before, she's easily confused; and having known her before and after, I have to agree, there's been a rather dramatic change; and like I said, it's now been several years since she was treated. She's young for dementia, I'd guess fairly youthful 40's, and appears in good health physically.

I just googled to try to find out more, and I get the general impression that the medical industry has resisted admitting that this could be a serious side affect of chemo.

Saving her life had to be the highest priority; and what's done is done, so I'm NOT asking about alternative therapies.

But I am interested in any knowledge you may have about chemo brain and what you think about her chances for recovering her mind.

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longship

(40,416 posts)
1. Well, there is the brain/blood barrier.
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:47 PM
Jun 2014

Brain cancer is extremely difficult to treat because chemotherapy drugs do not normally get to the brain. So, unless she was treated for brain cancer, it is not likely that she has "chemo brain", whatever that is.

I am not an oncologist, but that's the way I understand the science.

longship

(40,416 posts)
3. Here's what they say as sources:
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:02 PM
Jun 2014
For instance, brain problems could be caused or worsened by any one or any combination of these factors:

The cancer itself
Other drugs used as part of treatment (such as steroids, anti-nausea, drugs used for surgery, or pain medicines)
Low blood counts
Sleep problems
Infection
Tiredness (fatigue)
Hormone changes or hormone treatments
Other illnesses, such as diabetes or high blood pressure
Nutritional deficiencies
Patient age
Depression
Stress, anxiety, or other emotional pressure


Note that none of them is the chemotherapy itself. Some however may be secondary effects of the chemo, or possibly the stress of knowing one has cancer.

snot

(10,524 posts)
4. Yeah . . .
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:16 PM
Jun 2014

again, this gal is relatively young and fit, and her effects are appearing consistently several years after treatment; and the medical industry has a vested interest in downplaying side-effects . . . and as the article also says:

"Doctors have known for years that radiation treatment to the brain can cause thinking and memory problems. Recently, they have found that chemo is linked to some of the same kinds of problems."

"For most people, brain effects happen quickly and only last a short time. Others have long-term mental changes."

"Studies have shown clear evidence of nerve damage from at least some forms of chemotherapy. But studies of the effects of chemo drugs on brain cells are rare. . . .

"So far, early studies in the lab and in animals suggest that certain chemo drugs may harm some nerve cells even after the drug is stopped. Again, more research is needed . . .

"There is more concern about chemo brain today because cancer treatment studies have shown better outcomes using more aggressive, high-dose drug schedules. Newer targeted drugs affect certain pathways that are part of nerve cell formation and stem cell function, which also is a cause for concern. . . . ."

longship

(40,416 posts)
11. Well, she should speak to her doctor.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:02 AM
Jun 2014

I don't know why one would otherwise ask for assistance on a political forum web site.

Staph

(6,251 posts)
5. I'm not a doctor (nor do I play one on TV).
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:29 PM
Jun 2014

But I did go through chemo/radiation/chemo last year for endometrial cancer. My anecdotal experience:

Yep, there really is such a thing as chemo brain. I make my living as a technical trainer -- I teach software classes to business customers. I am, in my own humble opinion, a great talker. I can expound on just about any topic, for extended periods of time, in simple language for students for whom English is a second language, or with full-blown SAT-level vocabulary and myriad pop culture references just for kicks and giggles.

However, while I was undergoing treatment last year, I found myself searching for words, for concepts, for memories. I was probably better rested than I have been in years (my company gave me a six-month medical leave of absence), but I still found myself grasping at straws. I didn't have the navigation problems that your friend has, but I've always had an excellent sense of direction.

My last chemo was five months ago, and the problems are beginning to fade. I still search for simple words, especially when I'm tired, but a good night's sleep and I'm closer to normal. My oncologist hemmed and haw'ed when I asked about chemo brain, but he did admit that physically, at least, it will take about at least a year after treatment to get back to normal.

Tell your friend that it does get better. Get a lot of rest. Eat healthily. And exercise your brain, just as you exercise the rest of your body. (And FYI - I'm 60.)


NV Whino

(20,886 posts)
7. I had a friend who went through chemo and radiation
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:59 PM
Jun 2014

Although it is called chemo brain, and it is a recognized side effect, it is more from radiation rather than chemo... for brain tumor.

Her short term memory was shot. Unfortunately, she didn't live long enough to exhibit any indication of memory recovery. Her doctors misdiagnosed, or ignored, her symptoms for four years until she was in stage four, and the cancer had spread from her lungs, to her liver, to her brain.

Do I sound bitter? Oh yeah.

Laffy Kat

(16,377 posts)
8. Please research depression.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 12:36 AM
Jun 2014

Depression is THE deferential diagnosis to rule out before you start talking Alzheimer's. It can mimic Alzheimer's perfectly. Especially given you friend's age, it much MORE likely to be depression than anything with dementia. The good news is depression can be treated. Positive thoughts for your friend.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
9. What she needs is called cognitive therapy
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:51 AM
Jun 2014

and, while it's mostly done for people with brain injury and stroke, it would certainly help her cope with the deficits she now has.

She could stand a full neurological workup, completely with at least CT scan to see if she suffered any small strokes during her treatment. If she gets a clean bill of health there, she needs to progress to a psychiatrist who deals with cognitive issues in people with strokes and brain injuries.

What they don't tell you about chemo is that there are often long lasting problems from it. Some drugs compromise the cardiovascular system, others compromise the lungs, and often survivors have chronic pain to deal with. Post chemo dementia is not unheard of but it does seem to be under represented in the literature because the drugs don't cross the blood/brain barrier. There is usually another mechanism at work, and small strokes and anoxia are the main culprits.

While some of the deficits are likely to be permanent, she can be shown more effective ways to cope with them. In addition, the brain is a wonderful thing and keeps growing new connections among neurons. Online games can help, believe it or not, while she's waiting for appointments with the neurologist and then the shrink.

In the meantime, she could use a GPS to help her get around, one that tells her when to turn.

She doesn't have to stay lost like this. Therapy can help.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
10. Wasn't there a newswoman
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:35 AM
Jun 2014

who recently came down with leukemia after being treated with chemo for another cancer. I seem to remember her saying that it was a result of the chemo, and i thought that the medical profession is finally starting to admit/realize that treating cancer with chemo is not a good idea. Back years ago they said that it seemed like some of the 'cancer victims' were actually killed by the chemo. It is a fine line between curing and killing when it comes to chemo. Also I have read over the years that chemo nurses have a higher rate of cancer because of their being around the chemo drugs.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
12. It's a little unusual
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:12 PM
Jun 2014

We used heavy rubber gloves (much heavier than the supermarket variety) to touch even well sealed chemo infusions in the chemo units I worked on, more dangerous since they were in large teaching hospitals where last-ditch treatment trials were being done.

Chemo has a good success rate in some cancers like small cell lung cancer and early breast cancer. It has a dismal success rate in things like pancreatic cancer. Oncology doctors need to explain this to patients. It's hard to see a patient with a poor prognosis wrecking all the time s/he has left with a treatment that is most likely futile.

Add to that the news that palliative (comfort) treatment actually prolongs life expectancy with some illnesses, cancer among them.

More patients need to be offered the choice.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
15. FWIW - the description of chemo brain is similar to what people with autoimmune disease
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:09 AM
Jun 2014

call "brain fog" and to the after-effects of concussion. Six months after a concussion, I can recall concepts and even pull up visible images, but frequently have problems with recalling nouns.

I suspect sleep disruption has a lot to do with all of these - not enough time spent in the right sleep cycle.

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