He also has not been on an urban campus or any campus recently...

considering that mass murders have occurred in churches and at universities.

When I go to a church (which is very rare) I carry my legally concealed handgun as does my daughter and her husband. We have the philosophy that God protects those who protect themselves.

In my state it is illegal for the average citizen to carry a concealed weapon in a school or a university so we don't. Unfortunately gun free zones sometimes attract armed people with evil intentions who are looking for a shooting gallery. Since they plan to commit mass murder, signs and laws make no difference to them.


One of the photographs of Seung-Hui Cho that he sent to NBC News on the day of the massacre

Virginia Tech massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre

Which is why so many policemen and soldiers die in the line of duty....

"Since they plan to commit mass murder, signs and laws make no difference to them." - LIHOP or MIHOP?

I don't question why he allows bad things to happen to good people. That's far above my pay grade.

I follow the law and the law in my state allows me to carry a concealed weapon in most places as long as I have a permit. I have the permit and therefore I carry in those places where it is legal. To me it's not a big deal and while I don't expect to ever have a reason to use my handgun in legitimate self defense, I see no problem in being prepared for any eventuality.

Of course, that doesn't guarantee that if I am attacked I will walk away uninjured or avoid death. At least I have a reasonable chance in many situations. That's all I can ask for.

And if there are places where you're not allowed to carry, is God fumbling?

We should all Tebow more.

everywhere that there is no armed security. Therefore there would be no gun free zones to attract people with severe mental problems looking for a shooting gallery.

just to exercise a right. I don't need a license to vote. I don't need a license to have an "assembly" (political meeting, etc) at my house, nor a license to speak freely. I don't need a license to attend the church of my choice (or none at all). I see no reason to license my right to be armed.

Why don't you agree with broad freedom for all? Don't you want to be one of the good guys?

A predictable response.

It's not that you feel regulation is required, it's that you feel the current regulation isn't up to YOUR standards. There is already plenty of federal and state regulation - too much, in my opinion.


And the whole car/gun regulation debate is tired and worn out, so I see no need to beat that dead horse anymore. I'll agree to leave it alone if you will.

would your rules to apply to? Perhaps a license on the first amendment to express your opinion? Maybe having an editor revise a letter to a local newspaper, or being silenced at a town council meeting? Yea, burf is at the council meeting and he is opposed to a new directive, so we can't afford to let him speak at the meeting. He could only harm our effort to pass the measure.

How about the rules of having a picture ID in order to vote?

The list could go on.

So, why are those who exercise their rights guaranteed under the 2nd amendment treated differently?

No, I'm bad.

I guess you could say that they felt I was one of the good guys.

I just couldn't resist the temptation of the "when did you stop beating your wife?" question.

basically all other places should be open to CCers.

They're magic..

why would they have to "spec it out"?

because his gun malfunctioned. That's the only instance I recall.

Of course you can prove the first part, right? Or are you just relying on the second part to correct the first part?

"I'd much prefer to go into a gun free zone, while keeping it that way."

And how are you ensuring that you are in fact going into a gun free zone? You've got xray vision so you KNOW that no one in that zone has a gun because we all know that criminals obey those little signs. And of course to go along with that xray vision are your super ninja powers so you can keep that gun free zone, gun free, stripping down that 1911 and throwing the parts into the bushes, right?

We'll wait, it shouldn't take long.

Goose sauce, good for the gander, too!

as he is a connoisseur of the lame ass cartoons.

...and again proving my point that just about anything the gunnerhood could post is either stupid or right-wing.

Gun-free zones like you are espousing clearly don't do anything to stop someone who wants to go on a shooting spree on a college campus.

It didn't stop Amy Bishop. It won't stop anyone. Except people who are obeying the law.

"Don't bring your gun to town..."

Do you really expect every single American to pack to protect themselves from these nuts?

...there are a whole bunch of places where the law forbids you from carrying. SOTU time.

You are quite free to believe in the efficiacy of word magic, but sad experience shows that it's a poor basis for firearms legislation...

to protect my family and myself...he gave me the tools to stay safe.

your crowd feels are inappropriate to carry - parks, day care, schools, church, etc.

And then an incident happens at one of those places where I am faced with a threat, maybe even while with my 2 year old daughter. It could be a crazy guy off his meds wielding an axe, an angry ex hunting his/her ex with a handgun, a meth head with a knife looking to rob people, or maybe some anti-semitic conspiracy theorist white supremacist guy with a rifle.

How am I supposed to protect my child and defend our lives? If I am unarmed, I am at a disadvantage going into the situation, and while I am quite skilled with my hands, I really don't want to rely on my hands against an armed aggressor, especially when my daughter's life may depend on it.

Let's say I was unarmed, and killed by the aggressor (for whatever hypothetical reason we choose), just minutes before (say 15 minutes given the response time of 911) law enforcement shows up and he forces them to shoot him dead on the spot. My daughter survives the hypothetical incident after watching her daddy get murdered.

Who is held accountable for making me a victim? The hypothetical murderer? He's dead, so it's not like there will be any consequences for him. The police? Hell no! The courts have already ruled repeatedly that law enforcement cannot be held liable for failing to protect individuals who are not held in their custody, so being that I'm not a jailbird they are off the hook.

I guess that leaves me. But, being the nice guy that I am, I agreed to be unarmed to satisfy your desire to "feel" safe. And now I'm dead, and my kid is scarred for life after watching her dad get murdered.



Now, I will readily admit that the likelihood of such an incident occurring in front of me is slim. If I am lucky, I will spend the rest of my years carrying this inconvenient weight on my hip every day that does me not the slightest bit of good, and people like yourself will consider me a fool for it. But if the need ever arises, I would rather have, at the very least, a chance to defend myself and my family.

Yeah, as one of your fellow posters can testify, it's far more likely your gun will be stolen from your vehicle will you sit in a bar, and then used to commit a crime. Yes Virginia, the criminals get their guns from you...

I was a nightclub bouncer for years. That took all the fun out of drinking for me. After being punched, kicked, puked on, bled on, stabbed once, and soaked in beer and liquor over the course of 10 years, I have lost almost all desire to drink.

I do like an occasional pint of porter from my local brew pub. I will typically enjoy that pint with my best friend and business partner when the rare afternoon allows us to skip out of work early. It's been months since my last beer, and my next beer is probably months away.

Not drinking has a way of making it easy to get through the day without disarming.

...how would you feel if patrons were allowed to carry in your nightclub?

I've quit drinking for the most part too.

rather than the state. I don't have a problem with guns in bars. I have a problem with drunks with guns. Nightclubs tend to pack in a lot of drunken people and more than a few on drugs, so I wouldn't allow patrons to be armed in the club. I also wouldn't be a patron in a nightclub, gun or not.

I don't like crowds much anymore.

or some criminal takes your gun and shoots someone. Or, how about children who take their dad's gun and . . . . . .

What if a gun owner's kid tries to play like daddy and carries one to school. What if a criminal thinks some CCWer likely has a gun, so rather than holding them up at gun point and taking their wallet, he just shoots them in the head before you even know what's happening.

And there are plenty more direct and indirect consequences we can dream up if we are just going to speculate.

I definitely hope nothing like that happens, but no matter how good/responsible some gun owners think they were -- the bad things still happened, more often than the gun culture wishes to admit.

And, as you keep adding to your personal arsenal, you are just pumping more gun pollution into society that will have to be dealt with at some point.

"A chance" - Jeeeeeez

You and others have just as good a chance without a gun.

1) I wouldn't fire if there were a chance of hitting an innocent person,
2) he wouldn't be able to, as I would empty it at him first, and I use a retention holster,
3) not my kid and not in any way related to me. My guns are always secured,
4) see #3,
5) situational awareness is an important skill to have, but sometimes criminals will get the drop on you.

On your last statement, I will reply with this:

While I have the ability to defend myself with my fists, as well as my gun, and I am fit enough to run if need be, there are many who cannot. You are in no position to decide for others who has what chance, nor the right to dictate what means are acceptable to defend one's self with.

You also conveniently ignore the concept of Disparity of Force. Even as a fit man with defensive skills, I am at a serious disadvantage when faced with multiple attackers, whether they are unarmed or not. I'm not Chuck Norris and neither are you. Losing a fight against a group could easily mean death, whether the group intends to murder you or just kick your ass.

As a non-traditional student, I've gone to college for most of my adult life. Most of it was night school. I've gone to school in suburbia and in urban environments. I also currently attend the University of Alabama in Huntsville, and my classroom building, the Shelby Center, was the scene of the mass shooting by Amy Bishop, the Harvard-educated professor who gunned down six of her colleagues, killing three of them.

Most, if not all, of these campuses have emergency call boxes located all around campus with a blue light on top of them that you are supposed to run to in an emergency to call for police assistance. Most, if not all, have campus escort services so people don't have to walk around alone at night. I don't think they'd have these sorts of things if they weren't needed.

From the Department of Justice publication, "Sexual Assault on Campus: What Colleges and Universities Are Doing About It":

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/205521.pdf

"Schools are not the safe havens they once appeared to be; college women are at higher risk for sexual assault than their noncollegebound peers."

"Just under 3 percent of all college women become victims of rape (either completed or attempted) in a given 9month academic year. On first glance, the risk seems low, but the percentage translates into the disturbing figure of 35 such crimes for every 1,000 women students. For a campus with 10,000 women students, the number could reach 350. If the percentage
is projected to a full calendar year, the proportion rises to nearly 5 percent of college women. When projected over a now typical 5year college career, one in five young women experiences rape during college."

About 10-20% of rapes are from strangers.

So to me, college campuses seem a far cry from "hallowed ground".

But even if there were no crimes on college campuses requiring self-defense, so what? People who qualify for concealed carry permits are almost always at least 21-years-old. And they don't turn into violent sociopaths just because they happen to go to college. CCW permit holders are less likely to victimize you than any other person you might encounter while in public. So why worry about them? Why restrict them from carrying a firearm?

" I taught at public universities for 38 years. In all that time, I never personally encountered or witnessed any situation calling for the use of firearms."

I'm sure they had never encountered or witnessed any of those situations either.

They seem to have a very limited world view, if they haven't personally experienced it, it doesn't happen.