He was a Christian before it was cool, had problems with the local Roman gubmint. He didn't take up arms, and he was allowed to escape. But when he was doing it, he decided to turn back, to face crucifixion. His only request was to be crucified upside down, because he felt unworthy of dying the same way as Jesus. The Romans crucified the non-violent man. And like all non-violent people in history, from Gandhi to MLK to so many others, his self sacrificing actions had this mysterious effect: The Roman pagan government fell, to be replaced with a Christian one under Constantine.

Folks, non-violence is a real force in this world. Any one with a good record of history (as the Vatican has in their basement archives) can see it. Don't take this as a compliment for the Vatican, (I personally am not Catholic or Christian) but take it as a recognition of people who have paid enough attention to see what power really is: So many lifted up swords against the Roman empire, and they all fell. But these non violent early Christians brought the empire to its knees. Real power doesn't comes from guns, or swords, it comes from a deeper place within us.

PEace.

And the more you research, the more you focus on the highest and most serious levels of current military technology research, the more it will ring true:

1) When the fool goes to war with an enemy, he kills many people around his enemy with his enemy. And though he killed his particular enemy, he creates many more through collateral damage.
2) When a competent person goes to war with his enemy, he does a pretty good job of killing just his enemy, and not making any more through killing unrelated people.
3) When a MASTER goes to war with his enemy, he doesn't even kill him: He kills the attributes within him that seek harm, and in effect turns his enemy into a willing friend.

If you do a an intelligent survey of military history, you'll see this evolution in action: The esteem for WMD's like nukes, that indiscriminately kill vast numbers has been replaced with "surgical strikes", that focus only on highly relevant and influential people. Its quite easy to see how this evolution can continue, to the point where the thought patterns in the influential people are diverted, creating friends out of people who previously wanted to kill you. This minimalism, this highest, most effective point of military warfare is non-violence. Experiments by great people throughout history have shown its effectiveness. Meanwhile, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, defended by the likes of atheists like Christopher Hitchens, have been abject failures.

I am not a theist. I am critiquing philosophies of violence based on their objective, quantitative failures when placed side by side with philosophies of non-violence.

Peace

I think diplomacy should be used whenever possible, and when that fails, rebels within the country in question should be encouraged to fight their own revolutions to overthrow their own tyrannical leaders, instead of foreign invasions from abroad.

But I also agree with George Orwell:

“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

I especially liked your line about how British colonial rule was "more-or-less benevolent." lol!

Same with the fall of the Soviet Union.

It says just as much about the rulers as it does the people protesting against them.

...but in spite anything Rambo might say, "It is well that war is so terrible, or we should grow too fond of it." — Robert E. Lee, at Fredericksburg.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/robertlee.html#ixzz2IXLz2EDZ

...and something the parent incorrectly dismisses as being possible ONLY due to the accommodation of the British.

...more incapacitation than accommodation.

There is a delicate balance to be found between violence and non-violence.

That "Non-violence only works when the government has scruples about killing its own people?"

...non-violence protest succeeds and is the best option when it is tolerated either by the benevolence or incapacity of the party to which such protest is directed.

Have a great night.

I would welcome suggestions, links or discussion.

Have a great night as well.

do expose yourself, please.

your knowledge, I mean.

some bits of knowledge are there for the taking if you merely take the time. I could explain it to you, but I could not understand it for you.

Besides, you're still hung up on potty humor.

Good night to you as well!

Sucks to be you

Non thinking Shallow argument as all the controllers, He also blames it on the "Guns" and not the actual cause "The Humans".

Sucks to be YOU

...if you believe that there should be no gun control.

"Berserker"

Out of what I posted? Nice try now go outside and play.

Would not travel very far. Likewise, if weapons and ammo was not available to those outside of the military and law enforcement we would have 20 innocent children alive in Sandy Hook School. ENOUGH!!!

People have lots of well stated arguments against it... but of course you likely discount those arguments.

napoleon: He {Peter, later sainted} was a Christian before it was cool,.. his self sacrificing actions had this mysterious effect: The Roman pagan government fell, to be replaced with a Christian one under Constantine.

Near 300 years after his death?
There is also a 'second opinion' on this, that constantine 'converted' to christianity so as to bolster his roman armies with christians, since his own pagan roman armies were hard pressed by enemies, soon to iclude barbarian hordes. If constantine had not 'converted' to christianity, the romans would've had to fight for control of their empire under fire, as well as use cohorts to surveille christian activities.
Next chapter: the Inquisition.

Folks, non-violence is a real force in this world. Any one with a good record of history (as the Vatican has in their basement archives) can see it. Don't take this as a compliment for the Vatican, (I personally am not Catholic or Christian)

As a non practicing lethargic one, I agree, but also agree that a competent armed defense is a necessity, which was american policy prior to gwbush's invasion of iraq 2003.

Gandhi was undoubtedly the twentieth century's most influential pacifist. The success he enjoyed in forcing the British Empire to withdraw from the Indian subcontinent brought pacifism down from the ethers of a religious precept and gave it new political relevance.

wwII had recently ended, {Delhi} Indians HAD supplied british army in CBI theatre with divisions of fighting soldiers, maybe some kind of 'Indian appreciation day' from the crown, contributed.

LAGC: Non-violence only works when the government has scruples about killing its own people. Not so much in other cases.

True mostly; 'The pen is mightier than the sword' is often misinterpreted. Didn't work so well at munich when chamberlain came home with the pen 'peace in our time' & 2 years later wwII.
.. the saying was written by nobles referring to other nobles, not including barbarians or disreputable signers. When people of character & honor signed, only THEN, is the pen mightier than the sword.

Just off the top of my head, they protect pedophiles from being prosecuted, they conducted the Spanish Inquisition and encouraged the Crusades, pardoning in advance any sins the Crusaders might commit, like murder and rape, which led to some 200 years of war.

LurksO: The hypocrisy of the Catholic Church is amazing .. they protect pedophiles from being prosecuted, they conducted the Spanish Inquisition and encouraged the Crusades, pardoning in advance any sins the Crusaders might commit, like murder and rape, which led to some 200 years of war.

Let's set the facts straight here.
.. the catholic church does not 'protect pedophiles' from being prosecuted; they have failed to identify pedophiles only amongst their own ranks, which is of course wrong in itself. BUT, it's similar to the US military FAILING to prosecute properly their own soldiers, marines, airmen, seamen, when they commit heinous crimes, such as massacreing dozens of iraqis, or urinating on dead enemy corpses, or torturing them in US prisons. As a result, most all military offenders get sanctioned by US court martials to wristslaps.

The official catholic church, the Pope in rome & likely most all other countries, did NOT sanction the spanish inquisition. The official catholic position on the SPANISH inquisition was that it was wrong & should not persecute nor kill those which torquemada did kill & torture.
The catholic version of the Inquisition was far less severe than the spanish version. The official catholic inquisition involved mainly excommunication & some less severe forms of abuse, than torquemada & the spanish inquisition applied.

The crusades which christians sent warriors & knights from all over europe to, were provoked by muslim expansionism into anatolia (now turkey) breaching the dardanelles (istanbul/constantinople area). It was fear that muslim turks would take over constantinople (istanbul) that in good part precipitated the crusades, and with good reason, the turks had ridden roughshod over much christian territory in anatolia.
..Thus, the crusades were somewhat a 'just christian cause' provoked by the turks, but christian atrocities during the crusades are what are more deplorable. The muslims were not necessarily barbaric & acted with dignity & honor on occasion (the beheadings of a few thousand captured is acknowledged as a muslim atrocity).

What is their stance on guns anyway?

Last edited Sun Jan 20, 2013, 11:08 PM - Edit history (1)

and read statements from the bishop of our diocese in support of gun control, just like they've been doing for the past several years over abortion. Right?

I'm not holding my breath.

However I am not. Both my parents had been raised as Catholics but both left the church when they got divorced from earlier marriages in the 1930s.

In fact many Christians who know me do not consider me to be a Christian although I know far more about the Bible than they ever will.

The reality is that I belong to no organized religion.

Imagine that Panzer pope is against citizens defending themselves.