yup

The biggest issue their is you have elected officials so willing to break the law. Than pout when they don't get too.

... to see the defeated councilman take his ball and go home.

I can just imagine who will be playing him in the movie. I'm thinking Michael Gaston?

... you clearly didn't watch the video.

The councilman in question was spoiling for a fight -- wanted the citizen thrown out of the meeting he was lawfully and politely addressing and acted like a spoiled child when things didn't go his way.

If this is your idea of intimidation then I admire your lack of experience.

video, there is no evidence the Oak Harbor citizen was coercing anyone; esp. since the council AND citizens were evidently unaware as to whether or not the citizen was armed until he volunteered that information!

The two council members, on the other hand, tried to coerce (illegally) the citizen by forcing his removal.

You got it backwards.

yup

but I agree vigilantes are bad... but using a gun in the heat of the moment isn't vigilantism

they suck

yup

Because he is a veteran? Was it his haircut that tipped you off?

I don't remember hearing the man discuss politics -- other than his support for the 2A -- at all. How did you conclude he is either right wing or a douchebag or both?

yup

his haircut, and your threads/posts....

I think you have him beat

Hint: listen to the lyrics.

You calling him a right wing douche is pretty obnoxious considering you know nothing

You want yer guns grabbed.

Act like this douchebag

yup

All I saw was a polite, young man who has served his country. He didn't threaten or complain? On the contrary, the only person in that room who was an arsehole was the petulant councilman who took his books and went home when he didn't get his way.

I saw all I needed to see.

yup

... have the courage and bravery to protect someone who needed protection. Not to seek out wrongs and put them right, but just to -- if there was a situation -- do the right thing. To help a neighbour put out a fire, to give food to someone in need or yes, to even stop a bully if that was within my power.

Does that make me an arsehole? If so, I don't begrudge the moniker in the least.

not a fucking concealed handgun

yup

"The way a person dresses is nobody's business but his or her own. "

but this is a better way to dress

Except for the cape...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Jones

...right here.

Imaginary authority.

Sounds like a great place to live.

Some states do not allow being armed in such meetings or any political gatherings, Wyoming and Florida being among them.

And now I know to stay away from Oak Harbor.

Washington Prohibited Area for Firearms:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

City Council Chambers are excluded from that law.

More Info to be had here:
http://www.islandpolitics.org/?p=8732

We have a situation in our City Council where certain Council members feel that the oath of office they take is not meant for them. Councilman Almberg swore an oath when taking his position as a Councilman to support and uphold the laws and Constitution of our State, he has been repeatedly informed in council meetings that the State of Washington has preempted the ability of cities and counties to make laws that are in conflict with our state laws concerning firearms including restricting their carry in any areas that are not outlined in our State laws. City Council chambers are excluded from those laws.

On the paranoia....

Whether I feel the need to carry all of the time (and I don't)---- This kind of person is so not the problem.

People should just chill.

Permit holders register themselves, the submit themselves to a pretty comprehensive vetting by the state, and they get trained. They are icons of of the "reasonable" gun control movement and should be lauded.

Unfortunately "Reasonable" goes out the window when rubber meets road.

Last edited Tue Jan 22, 2013, 02:02 AM - Edit history (1)

What's there to be uncomfortable about? It's just a guy who feels he has to brag about the fact he's carrying a concealed weapon at a public meeting. What could possibly go wrong?

Did you notice how many of the visitors left?

common sense gun control says licensing, registering, training, background checks...

He's a handgun control poster boy for Pete's sake. You guys should be in love with him

I confess, it would have made me "uncomfortable" too.

by a former cop and fellow council member

Shot dead in a City Hall, full of police officers, by an angry man with a concealed weapon.

or are these situations in no way similar seeing as nothing happened.

But he was a city official, and he was murdered by someone carrying a concealed gun.

You would have stayed, I assume. I, like most of the visitors who were there initially, would have left immediately.

He had to be asked ... and only then did he answer.

I should have said, "After being asked, he bragged . . ."

... I say refused to lie.

Would you have felt less uncomfortable if he lied?

I think he should have left his weapon at home. At the very least, he should have checked it at the door.

Why go out of your way to frighten people and disrupt an official meeting? All of those people who left the room had come there with something to say. Weren't their rights violated?

He developed Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. He would say that they they made themselves feel frightened, especially since the guy simply answered a question asked of him. Should he have left it home or the car? Perhaps. Don't know his situation or why he carries. Or, he could have simply lied or chose not to answer the question.
FWIW, my personally, I would not have carried for a couple of reasons. First, I don't have a CCW permit. Second, the two states I bounce between (Wyoming and Florida) it would be a violation of state law to carry concealed in any political gathering or official building.

Were their rights violated? They made their own decision of their own free will. I would have stayed.

Being able to feel fear is a basic survival instinct, right? Let's not blame those who were frightened and fled the room.

The guy may have been completely within his rights to carry a gun there, but he might have thought a little about the first Amendment rights of those who also came to that meeting with something to say. Many of them will likely never go to another such meeting, they have been effectively silenced.

... are Constitutionally protected.

If they were, I could call 911 every time I find a spider in my bathtub.

Pardon me, but this is getting kind of redundant.

Please refer to my earlier posts. I hope they will suffice for an explanation of my opinions.

Yes, and it is rational if there is a clear threat. If he was waving it around or making threats etc. then you would be correct. Since none of that was the case, not so much. Not blaming them, but find any fear a little less than rational since he was not making any threatening words or gestures. Part of that is culture too. I grew up around guns, hunters, and cops in Wyoming. I went to the first Gulf War and stood in lines with people with loaded machine guns. So, it is a little harder to wrap my mind around it. Kind of like Vincente Fox not getting GWB's fear of horses.

Or they can lobby the folks in Olympia to amend the law to be more like Wyoming and Florida in that regard.

Was he violating the law?

Did he make any threats -- direct or implied? In what way did he even go out of his way to frighten or disrupt?

If it's legal -- as it clearly is -- to carry a concealed weapon under those circumstance, and he only revealed that he was carrying under the questioning of a petulant councilman, and he made no threat and offered no form of intimidation, then I would have to say that anyone who left didn't have their rights violated. Actually, they abrogated their own rights through their fears.

If I want to vote -- but, I'm terrified of the colours blue and red -- does putting a flag at the polling place violate my right to vote?

Well, except for the councilman who was out voted.

He frightened no one. He did not disrupt the meeting and was very polite about it.

There was probably no place to check the gun at the door. The only buildings that require lockers for that purpose are the courthouses.

There were a whole lot more empty chairs in the visitors area after he spoke than before (check the video). Some people left. I would have too.

Almost as if they were trying to get the crowd out of the room so that the council could go home early.

I guess that could be an effective means of censoring views and opinions one doesn't agree with? Just show up at the City Council meeting; go on at some length about your permit to carry and conceal; repeatedly pat the place where you piece is hidden (as this guy did) and when asked, admit you are indeed carrying at that moment. Then one would need only watch the room empty out.

That is my read of what I saw and heard on the video: such a tactic could be used for such a purpose. I haven't had a chance to talk personally with the guy in question.

... he could have just done this.

Checking puts an undue burden on any officers present. They probably have nowhere to lock it. The probably should be focused on the room.

Like it or not the safest place for it was in it's holster.

Also why risk and accidental discharge. Jpak has been laughing about all the discharges at check stations at gun shows.

Was edited due to time, the original is like 25-30 minutes long because he stayed behind to talk to the councilman after they adjourned, so no people didn't just stampede out.

There was no need at all to bring a gun to that meeting. The fact that it was legal to do so doesn't make it right. Where was the threat? Why was it necessary?

Maybe the threat is on his way home. The unfortunate reality of guns is the can't materialize and dematerialize as you change venues

Usually there is an armed officer at the meetings.