Bits I was able to listen to live were entertaining...the commentator, not the people.

Mentions of Hitler Germany et. al.

Apparently a number of NY Democrats (lawmakers) have expressed vocal opposition to the law once they read it. I guess the governor forced an issue and the law was passed in haste.

I think it is very telling that there seems to be people in this thread supporting a Tea Party rally with the President of the NRA speaking at it, The gungeon seems to be a safe haven for Tea Party supporters.

The SAFE Act has bipartisan opposition. Cuomo put something in there to outrage gun owners of all persuasions. Even the deer hunters who haven't touched a black rifle in their lives are upset that they will have to be background-checked every time they buy ammo.

I'm a gun rights diehard, but if I'm a Tea Party supporter then you're Evita Peron.

Argentina does not cry for you.

Just look at the picture at the link and see all the NRA hats and Gadsen flags in the crowd, looks like a Tea Party rally to me...

?7


And read the first paragraph at the link, which is strangely different than the one the OP posted...

the Gadsten flag is much older than the tea party. It was the first flag of the USMC. The US Navy Jack is a variation of it. Of course the NRA pres would speak at a rally like this. Wake me up if Keene speaks at a tax or health insurance rally. Some might be tea party types, many are probably middle of the roaders that didn't care either way. Co opting a flag really doesn't mean that much.d

The President of the organization who allows this man to sit on their Board of Directors was given the microphone at the rally.

Ted Nugent is an asshole. That doesn't change the fact that this is a bad law that many Democrats oppose. I know you can wrap your head around that if you try.

They could kick him off their board but instead they keep reelecting him, they are associated with him and that is no fallacy. The Board of Directors are not just members they are representatives, if they elect people like him to their board they are tying themselves to him and I will associate them with him all I want.

I would never say everyone at the rally is a Tea Party or an NRA supporter, I have been to a few different Tea Party rallies but I sure as hell did not support what they were doing. There are reasons to go to rallies even when you are strongly opposed to what is spoken at them, believe me I personally know that crashing a Tea Party rally can be a very entertaining experience so I could never judge everyone at the rally when I have been to their rallies myself.

I don't associate everyone at the rally with Nugent, I do associate every NRA supporter with Nugent however because they have chosen to speak their support for an organization that gives voice to an assassination advocate. This rally was heavily NRA, just look at the number of NRA hats you can see in the crowd shot. If they support an organization that allows an assassination supporter to remain on their board then I am going to associate them with the organization they associate themselves with.

You said that this was a Tea Party rally and that "The gungeon seems to be a safe haven for Tea Party supporters." Now you say, "I would never say everyone at the rally is a Tea Party or an NRA supporter." So what exactly was your point?

Not everyone attending is endorsing it, but if they choose to endorse it then I will point out the shit they are endorsing. My statements were totally consistent, I never went after everyone attending the rally, I went after those endorsing it.

You said this:

Not everyone in the crowd is cheering but the majority are, that is because the majority of the crowd is made up of NRA teabagging assholes. I will not criticize everyone at the rally however because there were probably a few counter protesters and I am all for counter protesters attending.

Can't you see that it's possible to oppose the SAFE Act and not support the Tea Party and Ted Nugent? You live in a cartoon world, devoid of nuance.

Every single one of my posts was criticizing support of a teabagger rally, not once did I ever mention the Safe act. Your screen name fits you well. I support the Safe Act but if people want to oppose it they can do so without propping up an organization that promotes assassination.

Perhaps that fact escaped you.

I'm guessing you know nothing about the SAFE Act, but in case I'm wrong, please tell me specifically why you support it. Also please tell me why people who oppose the SAFE Act should stay away from a rally opposing that act just because they don't agree with the politics of everyone there. That flies in the face of the methodology practiced by every protest movement everywhere.

Your ridiculous hyperbole about "promoting assassination," which I assume to be aimed at Ted Nugent, is completely irrelevant to this discussion. He wasn't there.

It (meaning he or she) is just throwing shit to the wind to impress his friends. It is so full of contradictions in most threads it forgets where/what it last posted.

Am I in trouble now?? Probably but like I give a flying f**k.

Take Care

He was elected by voting members. None of which includes me or most of the people in the crowd. Does that mean we should judge every member of MAIG including Bloomberg because of former member Gary Becker? He isn't the only MAIG member to go to prison, just happens to be the worst offense. The other fourteen are for usual political corruption. It works both ways. I doubt any voting member has seen the video or even has been to one of his concerts. Dixie Chicks maybe, but not Ted's and definitely not Fader Head's.

Or all Million Mom Marchers be associated with Barbara Graham who shot some kid about ten years ago. I remember reading the original WP article. The article said she had several illegal guns including (what the article described as) a sub machine gun in her apartment.

He is the President of the organization and he has an obligation to speak out when one of his Board members promotes assassination, if he can't do that then I am going to hold him directly responsible for tolerating assassination speech from within his organization.

You cite FORMER member Gary Becker, I am citing CURRENT member Ted Nugent, there is a big difference. If the NRA had kicked him off their board I would not be able to associate them with him, but because they allowed him to stay I will associate the NRA with him all I want.

I'm not a member and not on their mailing list. People say stupid shit in concerts. I don't picture Keene as a youtube viewer or as a rock music fan. Just guessing.

Becker is in prison and a former mayor, so I guess that would disqualify him unless there is a FMAIG. Point is he was still a member when he was committing the crimes. Besides, as much as I dislike Nugent, Becker's crime is worse. Saying stupid shit while stoned on stage is one thing, but Becker's kiddy porn really tops that.

If not then how is it relevant to the organition as a whole, if they did not know about it what were they supposed to do? Every organization is going to have bad apples, but there is a difference between organizations that don't know about the crime and those who allow criminals to remain on the board.

And don't try to dismiss this by saying "people say stupid shit at concerts", I have been to a number of concerts and have heard some stupid shit, but not once did I hear anyone promote assassination from the stage.

Saying Keene is not a You Tube watcher is ridiculous, this video was seen by millions there is no way he does not know about it.

not like I'm on their board either. Yeah everyone has some bad apples, MAIG happens to have a larger share, but it's an organization made up of politicians so I guess one could say that is expected. I'm sure that if there were a MFLG they would have the same problem.

Did the people who voted for Nugent know? I doubt most of those geezers know what Youtube is. I didn't say "people say stupid shit at concerts" I said "his saying stupid shit paled compared to Becker's crime" two different things. For all we know Keene could have been passing out NRA hats at the rally. I don't base my opinion on what other group is for or against something. If I did that, would I be for the MIC and empire because Ron Paul is against it? or be against the MIC and empire because Bernie Sanders is against it? Sometimes interests intersect, Sometimes, opposite ideologies will agree on something but for different reasons.

Nugent's remarks were heard by millions and widely publicized, there is no way a member of the board could get as much press as he has without the leadership hearing about it. This was not his only instance of using violent rhetoric either, there was at least one example of him using assassination talk at the NRA National Convention, that speech at the NRA Convention earned him a visit from the Secret Service. There is no way the NRA does not know about it yet they continue to give the guy a platform.

You claim that you never said "People say stupid shit at concerts", but you did say in post 21 "People say stupid shit in concerts" I may have mixed up the word "at" with "in" but I don't see how that changes the meaning of what you said and it makes it pretty much a lie for you to deny you said it.

I know he was serving 10 yrs. for trying blow some guy's head off in a road rage incident.

Was created by colonial Americans as a warning to the Crown that there would be consequences if they attempted to tread on their right. As it turned out, they were correct.

Considering the gross infringement on RKBA imposed by the SAFE Act, the use of the flag is quite appropriate.

Don't even try to pretend the people flying that flag are not teabaggers, it is not colonial Americans flying that flag these days.

and return it to its original context. You don't let some asshole misuse your symbols. You don't discard them either.

... who was convinced that every protest was orchestrated by and solely attended by Communists or their sympathizers.

I do however recognize the obvious, when the rally is dominated by Tea Party and NRA types the Tea Party and NRA agenda will be pushed.

Nobody. But the fact remains that there were lots of people there who weren't teabaggers.

You just want to cast vague aspersions and question the motives of anyone who opposes the SAFE Act. Bullshit, my friend. Bullshit.

by who "funds or organizes" an event - not the topic of the event?

Good to know.

Constitutional Law) how the provisions of the SAFE Act constitute a 'gross infringement' of the Second Amendment.

but may have violated Article III, Section 14 of the New York State Constitution

to learn with the other poster's legal reasoning is for claiming egregious infringement of 2A rights.

they can't join the national guard, i.e. the well-regulated milita.

I kind of doubt that, though.

link: Upwards of 10-thousand New Yorkers met in Albany to protest the New York SAFE Act, venting their anger at Governor Andrew Cuomo and the New York State Legislature

'Estimates' are usually inflated by proponents of a rally, & include passersby & momentarily intrigued people who are otherwise disinterested in the cause celebre'. This took place in albany (not sure if capitol areas), the capital of new york state, & would likely get a lot of look-ins attracted more by the commotion rather than to show support for the gunnutted cause.

link: A counter-protest was originally scheduled by supporters of New York's new gun law, who argue something needed to be done to curb gun violence. That protest was cancelled due to concerns of safety.

Quelle surprise, you got the guns, they got the numbers.

However, organizers say multiple groups are planning a massive gun safety rally in New York City for late March. That event is also expected to draw thousands of people.

Gun control rallies hold the records for turnout, far greater than the highest gunnut rodeos.

Tea Party Motto these days (someone else posted this elsewhere, thanks!)

I'm trying to not -- really I am.

holden caufield: "don't laugh at me" .... I'm trying to not -- really I am.

Haha! look what holden caufield wrote, haha, haha, hahahahahaha!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Can't Stop Laughing!

since the Kenny G concert.

[img][/img]

How about a St.Patty's Day parade?

Tell me that only teabaggers oppose the SAFE Act. Then I will laugh in your face for your foolishness.

That's my interpretation at any rate. Hopefully, one of the self-appointed commissars of progressivism will come along shortly to clarify.

He noted there were as many Democrats opposing the law as "others". These were the elected legislative speakers he was talking about. Many from the NYC surrounding counties. Teabagger rally? My cousin would laugh if he was called one. Cuomo screwed up.

The legislation passed the NY Assembly with overwhelming support and is a model for a nationwide law that is coming soon to a USA near you!

Proud of the progressive and liberal Democrats in the great state of New York that got this bill passed, and is now law. Something like it will soon be law of the land.


Edit: typo.

allow the three day waiting period required by the NYS Constitution instead of expecting a vote without the leg reading it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=112491
His explanation for the "emergency" was something to the effect that it would not have passed if people read the bill. Sorry, that stunt is more right wing authoritarian IMHO.

If that's not "overwhelming support" in a democracy, which is the form of state government the Empire State is governed by, then nothing is.

All the rest of that jazz about "stunts" and "three day waiting periods" is obfuscation and deflection: the law is on the books, and the state of New York is now a safer place for it. It is that simple.

and the leg didn't read it. He either respects the NY Constitution or he doesn't. I give the law five months, and it won't make the state safer any more than USVI's strict gun laws making it safer. Besides, as a liberal and believer in rule of law, Coumo's stunt just as unacceptable as if he were some Republican wanting to restrict womens health access. To give him a free ride just because he is Dem and pushing what some would be a progressive cause would be hypocritical. Besides, the gun control movement has a hard time making rational, fallacy free arguments that often boil down to name calling. I can't honestly support such a cause.

... it won't be on the books in its current form by Xmas.

The only thing you could do to make New Yorkers safe from gun-related accidents would be to take guns away from the NYPD -- or get them some proper training.

and upheld by a U.S. Supreme Court with majority-members appointed by Democratic presidents - have you checked out how old Scalia and Kennedy are getting lately? - that incorporates every single statutory feature of this excellent gun regulation measure, plus others, and you will simply have to get over it.

Gun culture of the sort embraced by the NRA and our "pro gun progressives"* is being assigned to the dustbin of history by the forces of progress and liberalism, just like the age of Jim Crow was. You'd better get over it: your grandchildren are going to live in a country with sensible gun regulations and laws nationwide every bit as comprehensive as the ones New York passed this year and currently has on the books.



*( )

... didn't they say this in 1994?

I hope you're not holding your breath.

those days are over.

In case you haven't noticed, this country's demographics are changing. The country is turning Blue. President Obama is the first Democratic President since Franklin Roosevelt to win more than 50% of the vote in TWO presidential elections. The Republican Party is fading away like the Whigs, and fast, and thank goodness on top of that.

Canadian/Australian-style gun regulation and policy is coming to the United States, my friend: you can bank it. Hearkening back to "1994" and the days of the New Gingrich/GOP takeover of Congress is odd stuff for a supposed Democrat on Democratic Underground to invoke as some kind of "salvation" of their cause in any event, but it's not happening again regardless. You can bank it.

Look forward to more of your predictions

back Congress for the first time since 1954 and a clear Republican victory - as some kind of triumphant mantra to argue against a law passed by the Democratic legislature of a majority Democratic state and signed by a Democratic governor on Democratic Underground against a fellow DU'er Democrat.

Yes, very odd, indeed....( )*




*Not really: I actually don't find it odd at all, since I'm well aware of what's going on here. And It's not really foolin' about no one else hereabouts, either.

....is that the AWB Passed in September of '94, and THEN congress went Republican, and you as a DEMOCRAT can't put two-and-two together.

Could you at least go after handguns - they are a real danger - before we turn the presidency and both houses of congress to the other side? At least I would think we were screwed for a good reason

Signed into law by a Democratic governor.

And the kind of law they passed is coming nationwide to the United States sooner rather than later - and within our lifetimes. Probably by 2017. Better get ready to get your "law abiding gun owner" self in compliance with those sensible gun regulations and laws that are a'coming from coast-to-coast: I know I am, as a "law abiding gun owner" myself.

"You'll get my bullets before my Guns" or "We will Not comply" signs?



A lot of that at that rally.

by the democratically-elected representatives of the People, and all of a sudden the "law-abiding" part gets ditched for the Red Dawn fantasy.

Yeah, I had to skip the rally - my favorite local pub had a bar-stool that needed tending to instead.