In a few months there will be a background check requirement for all sales, even "side deals."

Good on you getting them out of the house, one dad to another.

...are not going to be affected. Hilarious anyone seriously believes there is anything approaching enforcement here. When there isn't a record of who owns what, what do the LEO's have to go on? I'm sure I'll get the usual rhetoric as a response...

Mention the law would have no affect on side deals, I was wondering why everyone would just ignore the law, even if something could go wrong with the new owner. Say he gets arrested and spills where he got the gun from...illegally. The seller wouldn't care he'd be culpable?

Just doesn't seem all that smart..or law-abiding is all.

They are going to ignore the law because it doesn't have any teeth. Just like the national version of this bill.

Say he gets arrested and spills where he got the gun from...illegally.

...so I'll post a pic".


Let me know when you figure out how anyone (NRA or otherwise) weakened the HB1229 from the time it was introduced to when it was signed. I'll wait. Any minute now you'll have the names.




Any minute............................

Anything? Nope, didn't think so...

And explain the weak spots.

At least for new weapon sales, and there a quite a few nowadays, it could be enforced. Eventually older weapons will be thrown away, turned in with buyout programs, or otherwise be rendered irrelevant. Yes, it will be along time before all unregistered weapons will be off the streets, but if fines/jail time are stiff for possessing an unregistered weapon, and actively enforced on the street, it will make a big difference. And that is just MO!

Whether you agree or not - what's the alternative? And doing nothing is no longer an acceptable answer.

So this law provides absolutely nothing new there. Older weapons? Unfortunately you are very much wrong. These are durable goods, they last decades with minimal upkeep. Buyout programs are proven to mainly capture relic, unwanted, and sometimes broken firearms with very low criminal usage a stated by some police that have run these programs. Many of these arms are sold to dealers which sell them back to the public. The alternative is focusing on initiatives that actually impact violent crimes of all kinds. What you ask for is worse than doing nothing because it wastes resources that could be better spent. Maybe if you understood the issue better you'd know the alternatives.

Closing those loopholes seems better than nothing to me. And doing nothing is no longer acceptable in this climate.

if a private person who set up a booth for the day, then you are correct. If a licensed dealer sets up his booth, then NICS checks are required and anything required by the Gun Control Act be complied with. That is why "gun show loophole" is a misnomer. The issue is sales by non FFL holders, not where the sale takes place.

Every gun sale should go through a background check. Why would anyone be against that?

...at gunshows. I don't think you really know what a loophole is nor how the term is improperly applied to gunshows. Doing nothing is better than wasting resources on ineffective laws. I have yet to see you explain how these laws, which will cost millions to implement, will actually be enforced enough to have a credible impact on violence. Do you think that money would be better spent on schools, after school programs to combat gang affiliation, and job creation? All proven to have a positive impact on reducing crime on all levels.

If there are stiff penalties for possessing an unregistered gun. It may not stop all from owning an unregistered gun, but if and when they are found out, the gun is confiscated and they go to jail. An that is a good thing.

The CO laws provide no mechanism for registration. None. You might actually want to go read the law if you want to discuss it.

You obviously did not.

No registration or paperwork.
Any trail can become a case of one guy's testimony against another's...and it is up to the state to prove any wrong-doing.

Yes it will have an impact on the most lawful, those afraid of getting caught up in wrong doing in any way, but if turns out to be unenforcible? It seems another bill counting on the...spirit of the law, not any real deterence.

And to those who say "it can't happen here", I simply refer you to research what happened during hurricane Katrina.

Why are firearms owners so leery of registration and more regulations? Because the anti-rights folks have made it very clear what their end goal of all the incremental cuts is. It cannot be achieved all at once, but must be taken in small steps. If you throw a frog in boiling water, he will quickly jump out. But put him in cold water and slowly turn up the temperature, he'll cook to death without ever realizing what is happening.

Right now the discussion is about "assault weapons" and standard capacity magazines. Next will be "sniper" deer rifles with "armor piercing" ammunition (most standard rifle ammunition will penetrate a police issue vest, designed to stop handgun calibers). Then concealable, hidden handguns. "Destructive" shotguns. What is the ultimate checkmate?

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
Janet Reno, U.S. Attorney General, 1993

"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."
Joseph Biden, U.S. Senator, 1993

"f I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them ... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in," I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
Dianne Feinstein, U.S. Senator, 1995

"We're going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily -- given the political realities -- going to be very modest... Right now, though, we'd be satisfied not with a half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal -- total control of handguns in the United States -- is going to take time. My estimate is from seven to ten years. The first problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns produced and sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of *all* handguns and *all* handgun ammunition -- except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors -- totally illegal."
Nelson T. "Pete" Shields, Chairman, Handgun Control, Inc. 1976

Just like the 4th amendment would need to be repealed before the .gov would even think of wiretapping citizens without a warrant. Or how the .gov would never start 2 illegal foreign wars without Congressional approval. Or how NYPD would never violate citizens 4th amendment rights with their "stop and frisk" program. Or how the New Orleans PD would never confiscate legally owned firearms without repealing the second amendment first.. Oh wait.

You put way too much trust in the state. I prefer to deny them the necessary registration lists if they were to decide to violate the constitution, like they have done so blatantly in the last 12 years.

You people will use ANY argument to not have universal registration. It won't work with me.

and it will be the state pointing a gun at your head eventually. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

an ostrich-esque head in the sand attitude. Or maybe just an ignorance of human history.

in case the state tries to confiscate their guns ??? So why so obstinate?

I still have a few of my Grandpa and Dad's old weapons. They still work fine for target shooting. Thanks and I hope you have a lovely Easter if you celebrate it and if not a lovely Spring!
Peace, Mojo

Hopefully the next owner(s) will be as responsible as you.

I have never seen someone selling a gun to a shop get more than a passing interest unless it is a rare or very old model. Never seen anyone make an offer either; that is just rude to the shop owner.
Just curious

One was a S&W .38 Special conceal/carry model - internal hammer. The other an EAA Witness 9mm.

Guess I can see the interest in the S&W with all of the conceal/carry classes going on but I've got to believe that those are quite common. The Witness is somewhat unusual.

those S&W .38s are always popular though not exceptionally hard to find. I could see someone trying to get a deal on yours.
EAA is a sleeper brand with a bit of a cult following. IME they are very well made and reliable.

I think I would have done what you did, sell them to the shop even if it was possible to make a few extra bucks. From what you posted below, you received a very fair price. Your reasoning for selling may not be mine, but it is not for me to judge; it seems you and your wife came to a mutual decision. Likely the money will come in useful.
Good luck on the adoption; I hope it works out well for your soon to grow family.

what kind of pistols are they? While I understand why you wanted a bill of sale, the dealer had to log it in his inventory. I doubt he gave what the side buyers offered, but you could have offered 50 bucks to the store owner to do a background check on the highest bidder, which would include him or her fill out a 4473.

I got $600 for two guns that sell for $1000 brand new. I figured the guy had to be able to make something off of his transaction so I was pleased with the deal. I had no idea as to what kind of laws were in effect with background checks so I never really entertained selling them to anyone other than a registered dealer - why take the chance? They were S&W .38 and EAA Witness 9mm.

as I understand the new CO law, you and the buyer would meet at an FFL and they get a transaction fee. As I understand the new law, that is how it works, but everyone I know does it voluntarily. The couple of guns I bought on line, my FFL charges $45 because they have to be logged in his inventory then I go pick them up, fill out the 4473 and do the background check. One thing I would like to see for private sales is what MI does (they used to do it for store sales until it occurred to them it was redundant.) for private sales. The buyer gets a permit (closer to clean bill of health saying you passed NICS) from the cops good for 30 days to give to the seller.

I had to go to the Sheriff's office and submit my fingerprints for a background check. After a couple of weeks they called and said my permit was ready. When I got there they said I could purchase up to five permits. I didn't quite understand the magnitude of this and only purchased one - the deputy looked at me like I was an alien with two heads (so ended up doing this process twice within the period of a couple of years). When I bought my guns I handed over the permits to the sellers.

IIRC, MI only has been doing it since the 1960s. The reason I like MI's better only because the rational they had when they passed the law. MI passed theirs to deal with guns falling in the wrong hands. NC passed theirs because, let's just say they were inconsistent in their views of individual liberty and right of self defense.

My FFl Dealer charges $20, $10 if you have a Texas CHL.

Those people, who sat clueless during BushCo, are finally waking up, but the only seem to care about on thing.

I betcha they cheered on the NYPD's crackdown on OWS, too.

Revolvers, Semi-autos? Sigs Smiths?

We left the kids home for the first time alone half day yesterday. I had two firearms out for turkey season, I took the bolt out of the AR and put a lock on the 12ga shotgun.

Next weekend is the start of Spring Gobbler season, my son is about to burst with excitement because I said we'd pattern a few of our 12's today and take the best one of the bunch.

I haven't turkey hunted since my third year in college back in 90.

Only a few people in the shop but the owner seemed pretty interested and didn't haggle on the price I asked for it. I wasn't looking to make any money off of it anyway as it was something I repaired and sold for somebody who couldn't use it and didn't trust it to work when they might need it. Got them a good deal on a nice little pump-action 12ga and the money from the other paid for almost half of it.

It is not easy, even in a purple state and blue city, to make any kind of statement for gun control and safety without getting some really vile feedback. I know there are many gun owners in CO who care more about children than guns and I'm sure it is especially hard in places like the Springs and in rural areas to express reasonable gun control views, but we need to support those who are trying. We have about 10 gun manufacturers and 200 gun dealers in our state and as huge gun shows as TX; they and the NRA are pouring lobbying money to our politicians, but we are thankful to be making even small steps out of the wild west, cowboy, and frontier culture into the 21st century.

other than the fact that the "wild west" never actually existed? Most "toters" who carried pistols were upper middle class city types in places like NYC. I take it that cultural diversity shouldn't extend past the sterile and materialistic monoculture found in suburbia?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0717hill0717.html

We live down in Parker. Don't think you can get more red without going south 45 miles to the Springs. So when I was telling the Owner I wanted a receipt, I mentioned that we were doing an adoption and wanted a paper trail to show that we had gotten rid of our guns. Another clerk overheard and stepped right up and said, "You mean to tell me that if you are doing an adoption they won't allow you to have guns in your home?" I politely waived him off and told him that wasn't the case. I could foresee some big kerfuffle coming.

sold them for scrap metal.

There's a word for that -- it's called prejudice.

Not a very progressive attitude

... simply because of the situation, yes -- that is prejudice.

No difference between the poster and George Zimmerman. Prejudice is prejudice.

although one may not always be conscious of it.
When I was a kid in the 1960s, my mom would cross the street if a hippie (or anyone kind of counter culture looking), regardless of race, coming towards her. She was OK with other "squares squares", again regardless of race. I would say her fear of hippies was caused by prejudice.

Uhhh, you weren't there. You didn't see the people with their Tree of Liberty shirts and the huge "Don't Tread on Me" flags on the wall. As a true progressive I can tell you that these people weren't progressive nor was the business.

... of people who dress differently than you?

How do you feel about these guys?

Here the cops are doing a brisk buyback business--and this is the Wild West, too.

Kudos to you for realizing guns and kids don't mix.

Do what my dad did. When I turned 10, he bought an air pistol to use to plink his empties in a lake. We traded shots with it. The rest of the time it was locked away.

Good thing. I've always been a lousy shot with everything but a bow.

Rarely do the police arrive in time to stop a crime in progress. An instant access safe to keep handguns from curious little hands can be had for less than $100.

We're still just fine, thank you. Fear and paranoia does not rule my life.

You most certainly must have a smoke detector and fire extinguisher though. And I'm assuming as a prudent individual you wear your seat belt. Are you fearful and paranoid? Or just simply prepared?

They ACTUALLY save lives on balance.

2-3 million defensive gun uses per year, and a vast majority of those require no shots fired.

should not have one.

The truth of the matter is that a gun may ore may not help you. It may or may not hurt you. Because nothing is certain about them, people should make whatever decision is best for them and no one should even give it a second thought.

Unfortunately many of our elected officials would prefer to take away the ability to make that decision.