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Pullo

(594 posts)
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 01:39 PM Apr 2013

Democrats Ready To Deal On Gun Control?

The push by Obama and his allies, including a $12 million ad buy by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, appears only to have highlighted the fact that any bill that includes paper records for all private sales can’t pass Congress.

Perhaps the greatest sign that the push for tougher legislation has failed is that Democrats are quietly preparing a fall back position. Behind the scenes staffers for Republican Senator Tom Coburn and Democrat Charles Schumer are drafting a substitute background check bill that would be softer, but could get broad Republican support. “Lines of communication remain open and both sides are working in good faith to come to an agreement,” says one source close to the deal.

The substitute bill is not yet done—the sticking point remains whether there will be a requirement for paper records of background checks on private sales at gun shows or elsewhere. Coburn says Republicans won’t accept any expansion of record keeping to private sales, even though paper records are required for guns sold by licensed dealers. Gun control advocates say that not including a paper record of a private gun sale makes the expanded background check requirement for gun shows and other private sales toothless. The bill incorporates other compromises already agreed to, like exempting holders of concealed-carry permits and intra-family gun transfers from the checks, and other measures.

Barring a dramatic turnaround, the Democrats now face a choice of either walking away from any expanded background check or accepting one without paper records of private sales. Some gun control groups are pushing Democrats to walk away. But the White House appears to be softening its tone. “What the president wants to sign is the strongest gun bill he can sign,” White House senior advisor Dan Pfeiffer said Thursday at a function of the website, Politico. “What we have to make sure is that whatever we do is better than current law,” Pfeiffer said.

Link

The pro gun control side is in a hurry to cut a deal on background checks while it can. They realize the momentum is not on their side, and that the NRA and the pro gun side has the upper hand on Capitol Hill.

Why are gun control supporters having such a tough time getting votes on an issue ~90% of Americans support, at least conceptually?

"In every Quinnipiac University poll since the Newtown massacre, nationally and in six states, we find overwhelming support, including among gun owners, for universal background checks," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "American voters agree with the National Rifle Association, however, that these background checks could lead someday to confiscation of legally-owned guns."

By a 48%-38% margin, voters say that the government could use the information from universal background checks to confiscate legally-owned guns. And gun owners believe 53%-34% that the checks could lead to confiscation of legal guns. There's also a partisan divide on the question, with 61% of Republicans and 51% of independents, and only 32% of Democrats, expecting confiscations.

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jimmy the one

(2,708 posts)
6. same poll gets 91% support for bg chex
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:51 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:27 PM - Edit history (1)

pullo poll: By a 48%-38% margin, voters say that the govt could use the information from universal background checks to confiscate legally-owned guns. And gun owners believe 53%-34% that the checks could lead to confiscation of legal guns. There's also a partisan divide on the question, with 61% of Republicans and 51% of independents, and only 32% of Democrats, expecting confiscations.

Yet the very people polled in the survey which found 48% thought confiscation could result from bg checks, also supported bg checks 91%. So they evidently don't feel it's any kind of infringement if they simultaneously support bg checks while thinking govt could use them as a confiscatory tool!
I suspect the 48%* feel in part, that while gun confiscation of legal guns might occur, it would be justified such as when a particular type (ie assault rifle) later became banned, or the gun owner became unstable or committed a crime, or domestic abuse. Which is pretty much the point, confiscate legally owned guns when the gunowner strays from the straight & narrow or when congress imposes restrictions on certain types of firearms. Why else would they support bg chex if they simultaneously thought it would infringe on anyone's 'rights'?
*{edit - less the 9% opposed to bgchex who would also think confiscation, for approx 40%}...

Do you support or oppose requiring background checks for all gun buyers?"
.................Support..Oppose ..Unsure
3/26 - 4/1/13 .....91 ....8 ...1
2/27 - 3/4/13 .....88 ...10 ...2
1/30 - 2/4/13 .....92 ....7 ...1

"Do you believe that if there are background checks for all gun purchases the government will or will not use that information in the future to confiscate legally-owned guns?"
.......................Will ..Will not.. Unsure
3/26 - 4/1/13 .......48 .....38 ........14

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Note also in the quinnipiac poll that support for 1, stricter gun laws, 2 assault weapons ban, & 3 hi capacity mag ban/limit, has slightly increased over the past 3 months in 3 separate Quinni polls, remaining at parity along with bg checks ~90%, & guncontrol support NOT waning.

spin

(17,493 posts)
7. Firearm registration is illegal in Florida. ...
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 02:58 PM
Apr 2013

The 2012 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI CRIMES
Chapter 790 WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.335?Prohibition of registration of firearms; electronic records.—

The Legislature finds and declares that:
1.?The right of individuals to keep and bear arms is guaranteed under both the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and s. 8, Art. I of the State Constitution.
2.?A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a law enforcement tool and can become an instrument for profiling, harassing, or abusing law-abiding citizens based on their choice to own a firearm and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution. Further, such a list, record, or registry has the potential to fall into the wrong hands and become a shopping list for thieves.
3.?A list, record, or registry of legally owned firearms or law-abiding firearm owners is not a tool for fighting terrorism, but rather is an instrument that can be used as a means to profile innocent citizens and to harass and abuse American citizens based solely on their choice to own firearms and exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the United States Constitution.
4.?Law-abiding firearm owners whose names have been illegally recorded in a list, record, or registry are entitled to redress.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.335.html



I support universal background checks without any further form of firearm registration than is currently required when a buyer purchases a firearm from a licensed dealer.

When I sell one of m firearms today:

1)The buyer has to be a resident of Florida.

2) I have to personally know the buyer well enough to have a positive view of his/her personality.

3) The buyer has to have a valid Florida concealed weapons permit.

Universal background checks have an good chance of becoming law if the gun control side stops overreaching. Unfortunately all the efforts to pass another useless, "feel good" assault weapons ban by the media and some liberal Democrats has made passing far more reasonable laws much more difficult.

sir pball

(4,743 posts)
11. While 4473s for all sales could theoretically result in a database..
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:55 AM
Apr 2013

It would have to be a top-down affair - the .gov would have to start at the manufacturers and individually trace every single gun ever sold through their entire chain of transfers, manufacturer -> dealer -> buyer -> next buyer -> etc.

That would be a virtually impossible task for even the most efficient and competent organization, let alone the Feds. I will cheerfully admit the theory, but I have absolutely zero concern about the practical threat of turning traceability into registration.

 

CobblePuller

(38 posts)
12. I assume you mean "virtually impossible" as a means of registering....
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 01:40 PM
Apr 2013

all the 300 million-odd guns already in public hands.

Because that's exactly what is done to trace guns recovered in crimes, with great success.

The man-power to do it for a 100% registration, however, does not exist.

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