Gun Control & RKBA

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts) Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:02 AM Mar 2014

Hot-heads with guns

A Houston-area dad shot and killed a 17-year-old teenage boy he caught in his teenage daughter’s bedroom.

According to police reports, one of the father’s other children alerted her father that she heard someone in her sister’s bedroom. About 2:20 am this morning, the father went to his daughter’s room with a gun and confronted to 17-year-old boy.

The man’s daughter said that she did not know who the boy was and the father said he told him not to move. The father told police he saw the teenage boy reach for something and then he opened fire - killing the teen in his daughter’s bedroom.

Police said the teenage boy did not have a gun and his 16-year-old daughter later admitted she did know the 17-year-old teen who was in her bedroom.

http://www.wwl.com/Scoot-Hot-heads-with-guns/13069478?pid=387928

5 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Hot-heads with guns (Original Post) SecularMotion Mar 2014 OP

"daughter said that she did not know who the boy was" This is just sad all around. NYC_SKP Mar 2014 #1

Wasn't this posted in GD (Guns Discussion)? Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #2

Twice sarisataka Mar 2014 #3

Looks like they're tryin' to start another GD movement. Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #4

Scoot isn't very well educated is he? gejohnston Mar 2014 #5

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

1. "daughter said that she did not know who the boy was" This is just sad all around.

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:14 AM

Mar 2014

But what's a father to do?

If it had been a rapist burglar, they might have had a gun and if dad was without protection there might be two people dead and one bad person running around free.

No winners in this.

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

2. Wasn't this posted in GD (Guns Discussion)?

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:28 AM

Mar 2014

sarisataka

(18,663 posts)

3. Twice

Reply to Eleanors38 (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 11:30 AM

Mar 2014

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024657506

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024660359

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

4. Looks like they're tryin' to start another GD movement.

Reply to sarisataka (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 12:48 PM

Mar 2014

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)

5. Scoot isn't very well educated is he?

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 14, 2014, 01:33 PM

Mar 2014

We do not know what happened in this tragic situation, but we do know that a 17-year-old is dead and there is at least a question about whether the father who shot him was actually threatened - or was he another hot-head with a gun?

Is he serious? Any intruder in your home at 0230 a reasonable person would assume it is a threat. That is true pretty much anywhere in the world. I kind of get the feeling this was daughter's boyfriend who was invited in by the daughter, but dad had no way of knowing that.

It may not be a coincidence that several high-profile shootings have occurred in parts of the country where carrying a gun for protection seems to go beyond protection and includes the right to punish inappropriate actions or to avenge rage.

I can only think of two.

The case of 47-year-old Michael Dunn, who shot and killed 17-year-old Jordan Davis following a confrontation over loud music in the parking lot of a convenience store in Jacksonville, Florida is another case the attracted national attention. A jury found Dunn not guilty of murder, but guilty on other charges that could lead to very long prison sentence. Sentencing in that case has been delayed for a few days.

The jury was hung, it isn't the same as not guilty. Corey says she will retry the case.

Michael Dunn was criticized by many who seemed to think that his life wasn’t actually threatened and that he used his gun to punish a teenager for being disrespectful to him by refusing to turn down the music in the car he was in.

I don't think his life was threatened either. I don't know his actual motive, but being a volatile asshole comes to mind.

Also in Florida, a 71-year-old retired Tampa police officer is facing second-degree murder charges for shooting a 43-year-old man following an argument over texting in a movie theater. Curtis Reeves shot and killed Chad Oulson following a verbal confrontation over Oulson texting in the theater during the showing of previews prior to the showing of the feature attraction, “The Lone Survivor.”

The retired police officer told police that he felt his life was threatened when the man hit him. However, witnesses, including the police officer’s wife, told police they never saw Oulson hit Reeves. Reeves is being held without bond.

I'm not taking bets on this one. I will see how it really went down with the media accounts and report back.

One report indicates that Reeves felt his life was threatened when Oulson threw popcorn in his face. Reeves had a previous encounter with a young woman over texting in the same movie theater. So, is this another recent case of a gun owner who was too quick to use his gun - not for defense of his life - but to punish someone who didn’t listen to him?

Something tells me that his TPD personnel record or reputation will indicate he was kind kind of badge heavy, and didn't lose it when he retired.

Since any criticism of gun owners in America leads to the hysterical assumption that the criticism is motivated by an anti-gun agenda, it is important that I say that I favor legal gun ownership in America and I support the 2nd Amendment. But what I do not support (and what I do criticize) is gun owners who use “stand-your-ground” laws to protect their belief that they can be proactive with their guns to punish someone in a moment of anger or disagreement. Shocking as this may be to many gun owners and worshippers of the 2nd Amendment - that is not part anyone’s right to own a gun in America.

He doesn't understand SYG, and the law isn't relevant in any of these cases with the possible exception of Reeves. If there was a shotgun (for the record, I don't believe there was) he wouldn't have been able to retreat safely. Since there didn't seem to be a shotgun, it isn't self defense under any theory. This guy in Houston would fall under castle doctrine, which is different than SYG.

In America, you are not allowed to shoot someone who is disrespectful to you or someone who does not obey your orders concerning their conduct. You are only allowed to shoot someone who is literally threatening your life, the lives of your family or your property. There are a few other circumstances when lethal force is allowed, but no one is allowed to shoot someone out of rage, frustration or anger.

I don't know about his state, but you can't shoot someone over property in Wyoming and probably most other states other than Texas.

We should have a right to be honest about hot-heads and irresponsible gun owners without the extremists assuming that any criticism of gun use is a direct attack on the 2nd Amendment. And extreme gun-control activists should not assume that every gun owner in America is ready to use his or her gun for any purpose other than protection of life and property.

Not even they do.

Gun-rights supporters who automatically assume that the use of a gun in a shooting following a verbal confrontation is justified must realize that the actions of the irresponsible gun owners are NOT protected by the 2nd Amendment, and with the right to own a gun comes the absolute responsibility to use a gun properly.

Since I have not seen anyone on any gun blog or legal blog give either Dunn or Reeves the benefit of doubt, a bit of a strawman.

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