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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:40 AM Jul 2015

Would limiting gun ownership to non-powder weapons infringe on the 2nd Amendment?

Non-powder guns expel projectiles (usually made of metal or hard plastic) through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring action, they are different from firearms, which use gunpowder to generate energy to launch a projectile.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/es/firearms/citation/quotes/8745

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Would limiting gun ownership to non-powder weapons infringe on the 2nd Amendment? (Original Post) SecularMotion Jul 2015 OP
??????????? just us Jul 2015 #1
Yes. Go read Heller. nt hack89 Jul 2015 #2
From Heller SecularMotion Jul 2015 #3
From Heller hack89 Jul 2015 #4
The 2nd amendment only protects a right to possess arms, not firearms. SecularMotion Jul 2015 #7
"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm" hack89 Jul 2015 #8
The statement is incorrect and could be challenged. SecularMotion Jul 2015 #10
It is presently the law of the land hack89 Jul 2015 #11
The wording of the decision does not agree with the constitution. SecularMotion Jul 2015 #12
So what are you going to do about it? hack89 Jul 2015 #13
That "...wording of the (SCOTUS) decision..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #15
I disagree. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2015 #17
Firearms are a subset of 'arms' so yes, you are wrong. N/T beevul Jul 2015 #20
The police should be required to use non-powder firearms exclusively. Nuclear Unicorn Jul 2015 #5
Would limiting news organizations sarisataka Jul 2015 #6
IMHO, yes and... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #9
I like how you're for as tight a regulatory regime a possible. krispos42 Jul 2015 #14
The Second's recognition of the RKBA(rms) spoke of an individual right which the government Eleanors38 Jul 2015 #16
Here's the important point. MicaelS Jul 2015 #18
Hopefully we'll never have to fight that battle. ileus Jul 2015 #19
Are you okay with the development of liquid and gel type propellants? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2015 #21
Girandoni repeating rifle. Made in the 1780's, 20 shots, semi-auto, can kill a deer. AtheistCrusader Jul 2015 #22
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
3. From Heller
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:09 AM
Jul 2015
Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
4. From Heller
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:34 AM
Jul 2015
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a
firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.


and

The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to
self-defense) violate the Second Amendment.
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
7. The 2nd amendment only protects a right to possess arms, not firearms.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:47 AM
Jul 2015

Limiting ownership to non-powder weapons is not a ban on handguns.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
8. "The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm"
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:50 AM
Jul 2015

from Heller. As you were saying?

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
10. The statement is incorrect and could be challenged.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jul 2015
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
11. It is presently the law of the land
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 11:02 AM
Jul 2015

until it is challenged and overturned, the suggested "solution" in your OP is unconstitutional.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
12. The wording of the decision does not agree with the constitution.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 11:22 AM
Jul 2015

It is the wording that is "unconstitutional."

hack89

(39,171 posts)
13. So what are you going to do about it?
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 11:26 AM
Jul 2015

until the supreme court agrees with you, what you think about it is irrelevant.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
15. That "...wording of the (SCOTUS) decision..."
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jul 2015

...by law, existing Constitutional process and, until overturned by another SCOTUS ruling or superseded by a constitutional convention, defines "constitutional".

It does seem unlikely that any of the current five justices concurring on ALL aspects of this opinion are likely to, for one, be presented with another case that would reopen the issue and, for another, change their minds.

Accepting that as being reality, do you have a course in mind for dealing with that decision and its consequences other than waiting for a justice to die or retire?

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
17. I disagree.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 03:00 PM
Jul 2015

The wording of the amendment is such that it ascribes the "right to keep and bear arms" to the people. It does not define "arms," nor does it create a differentiation between types of arms. While it does not employ the even broader term "weapons" (thus excluding such weapons that were not considered "arms" in the lexicon of the day, paving the way for restrictions on artillery, etc.), nothing in the language can be seen to exclude firearms. Infringing on the right to keep and bear some arms is still infringement.

sarisataka

(18,770 posts)
6. Would limiting news organizations
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:44 AM
Jul 2015

to only producing hard copy, printed documents infringe on the 1st Amendment?

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
9. IMHO, yes and...
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 10:51 AM
Jul 2015

...that restriction, if passed into law, would no doubt spur the development of liquid and gel type propellants that would have mostly the same effect in terms of energy delivered to the projectile.

The side effect of that would be new patents on the most efficacious material developed and likely leading to some of the 1%ers becoming richer and the average middle class firearm owner paying a few dollars more for ammo.

Another side effect would be underground production of powder fueled ammo and the black-market that goes with it. I don't see a good effect from giving criminals an incentive to try manufacturing explosives.

krispos42

(49,445 posts)
14. I like how you're for as tight a regulatory regime a possible.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 12:25 PM
Jul 2015

After all, if it's not unlimited, then it should be as limited as possible, right? Just like in other areas of law and constitutional rights.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
16. The Second's recognition of the RKBA(rms) spoke of an individual right which the government
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 12:41 PM
Jul 2015

relied upon for its more limited obligations in Article I and in 2A to provide for a "well-regulated militia." The militia in those day was considered well regulated when citizens reported (when called) with a firearm suitable for infantry application in proper working order, and with a knowledge as to how to use the arm. While air guns and other technologies were being developed at the time of the Constitution's writing, the well-regulated arm of the time was a firearm, not a knife, not a club, not an experimental non-"fire" weapon.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
18. Here's the important point.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 08:52 PM
Jul 2015
Although there are no federal laws regulating their transfer, possession or use, non-powder guns are, unlike firearms, regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)…


So that means that the CPC would be able to eventually make them illegal.

Yeah, I see where you're going with your latest crap.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
19. Hopefully we'll never have to fight that battle.
Thu Jul 23, 2015, 09:41 PM
Jul 2015

That's why it's so important that we remain progressive on the 2A...we can't let those that would rather us be victims win.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
21. Are you okay with the development of liquid and gel type propellants?
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jul 2015

see: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172172353#post9

"Non-powder" doesn't eliminate other chemicals.
For that matter there are many fine solid, non-powdered chemicals.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
22. Girandoni repeating rifle. Made in the 1780's, 20 shots, semi-auto, can kill a deer.
Fri Jul 24, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jul 2015

You sure you want to go down this road, bro?

That rifle pre-dates the constitution and is far more lethal to humans than 3/4s of my powder based firearms.

And while we're on the subject, would non-powder include lasers? I like lasers. I can build a mean rail gun too.

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