makes up for all of the kiddies who are shot by the gun some asshole adult left available! Or the various mass shootings that are so common no one pays much attention to.

Yeah, so long as once or twice a year this happens, none of the other murders matter, do they?

You may assume the sarcasm thingy.

and nowhere does he say that or even imply that.

And should be done at the drop of a hat?


We will never agree on this.

The THUG came in armed, pointing a gun at people in order to rob. I don't believe he "dropped a hat."

I do not harbor special considerations or unseemly attractions to violent felons who would kill for a little bit of money.

We will never agree on this.

You didn't bother reading the story, did you. You just jumped to a conclusion that matched your prejudice.

The armed robber, 55 year old Reginald Denny, had a gun pointed at the store clerk and was forcing two of them into a back room before the licensed concealed carrier drew his weapon and shot.

Yeah, that's the "drop of a hat". He probably just wanted to talk over the hard life he was living with the women.

No, we won't agree, as long as you're too busy to even read the facts of the case.

Shows your ignorance on the law, it wasn't murder, which has a very specific meaning, it was a justifiable homicide.

Criminal empowerment is truly a disgusting phenomenon to witness.

he was only robbing people at gun point.

Can we call him a criminal since he didn't completely carry out the act? LOL

ProTip: look up "murder" in a dictionary.

He chose his path and paid the price.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

I cannot object to a citizen opening fire on a robber. I don't care if the robber was shot in the back, with no warning. We live in a violent nation, where the government kills people as punishment for killing other people. We send our quasi-mercenary armed forces halfway around the world to invade small, defenseless countries and kill hundreds of thousands of their people. We use drones to blow up entire neighborhoods in an effort to assassinate one "bad guy." Bad Guy With Gun vs. Good Guy With Gun is just a natural consequence of our violent nature. Attempting to regulate firearms will have zero effect in such a culture. To paraphrase the NRA: "Guns don't kill people. Violence kills people."

Vigilantism is wrong. Does buying a gun and a concealed permit come with the option for extrajudicial murders or the right to stand as the sole arbiter of justice, the judge, jury and executioner? As much as the criminal act was wrong, a gun is no substitute for the judicial process, and no matter what sentence that robbery warranted, it would not have included the death penalty.

after being injured?

after being seriously injured?

never- let the judicial process handle it.

When you can prove that armed robbers never kill people will their potential victims consider not defending themselves.

especially when the robber, after getting the money, decides to herd people in the back room, that meets the definition of reasonable belief of or immediate threat of death or grave bodily harm. There is no guarantee that the robber wouldn't have murdered the clerks just for the fun of it. That actually happens. As much as it was an unfortunate necessity, are you saying that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from possible or certain death? Had he murdered them, the chance of the crime being solved is less than half.

Vigilante: any person who takes the law into his or her own hands, as by avenging a crime.
The act of defending one's self or another from the serious harm is not vigilantism.

To allow unprovoked violence to succeed when one has the ability to stop it is a greater ethical offense than to commit violence in its prevention.

wise fellow that Augustine

... at Lane Bryant in Tinley Park Illinois, 2008.

When confronted by an armed robber the 6 women obeyed and allowed themselves to be led into the backroom and tied up on the floor. After being assured that all he wanted was the money, according to one surviving witness.

Then, after looting the register and their purses, he shot all 6 in the back of the head. One miraculously survived.

According to your "logic", thankfully no one was allowed to concealed carry so there was no threat of a "vigilante" interfering with his robbery or the murders.

They are still looking for the killer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_Bryant_shooting

or not is a lousy option. Kudos to the concealed carrier.

The judicial process was someplace else at the time, sitting in squad car.

The person was not hunting down a criminal after the crime occurred. So it was not vigilantism.

The only way to stop this violent criminal with a weapon, and to protect the innocent, was to stop shoot him.

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person
under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:
(a) The actor reasonably believes that such other person is using or
about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the
actor may not use deadly physical force if he or she knows that with
complete personal safety, to oneself and others he or she may avoid the
necessity of so doing by retreating; except that the actor is under no
duty to retreat if he or she is:
(i) in his or her dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or
(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police
officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to
section 35.30; or
(b) He or she reasonably believes that such other person is committing
or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible criminal
sexual act or robbery; or...

Then a mass killing was stopped.

That doesn't count the one in my state where a lady pulled her legal concealed pistol and shot at a shoplifter as he drove off.

For instance, there's an entire Reddit group just to document a fraction of the stories that actually make the news. I would also suggest you try a Google search. Notably, stories where simply brandishing a legal firearm in response to an assailant, where the perpetrator is neither killed nor wounded, probably accounts for the vast majority of defensive gun uses, but rarely make the news or even reported to authorities.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dgu/

Or is it intentionally omitted?

No one is denying the existence of gun crime. However, facts are facts, and it is beyond any doubt that firearms are used frequently for lawful self-defense.

You can choose to ignore this inconvenient fact, but most of the American do not, as clearly indicated in numerous polls and the election victories of pro-gun rights candidates, both Democrat and Republican.

Lastly, even if guns were never used as a means of lawful self-defense, it would not change the fact that individual gun ownership is a protected constitutional right and part of the cultural heritage of many in our nation, and that firearms are indeed used for other legitimate purposes such as hunting and sport.

This point is adequately exemplified in the Democratic Platform's position on firearms,

Plus it brings out the crazier; "I don't want any criminal to suffer harm" crowd.

The "They only want your money/watch/I-Phone/etc., just give it to them and they'll go away". Nothing like trusting to the tender mercies of an armed robber with a lengthy record.

But as long as it's someone else money and life, they can afford to be generous.

Hey, it's a free country, so if they choose to be a chalk outline, that's their choice, not mine.

but remember, we saw a " target="_blank">weasel riding a woodpecker first -- and we didn't build a national policy around it.

The first one is very relevant to the discussion.
http://www.amazon.com/Point-Blank-Guns-Violence-America/dp/020230762X/ref=pd_sim_14_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=516ANRPVQNL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR106%2C160_&refRID=1ASSV3MACCNDTPTP00NF

http://www.amazon.com/Armed-Considered-Dangerous-Second-Edition/dp/0202362426/ref=pd_bxgy_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1ASSV3MACCNDTPTP00NF

The police reports gave more details. Airsoft gun, no orange tip of course.

Turns out the masked robber (Gildersleeve) grabbed the owners 13 year old son outside the Bodega/currency exchange, pushed the gun against his head and dragged him inside. The mother and teenage sister said it looked, and he acted, like it was a real gun.

Then he forced the mother, 16 year old girl and boy into the back and started an argument with the customer, who didn't want to go in the back room. According to the 16 year old Gildersleeve tried to force the customer in the back at gunpoint.

That prompted the customer (40 year old Hispanic Male) to draw and fire, 3 shots center mass, dead at the scene.

Airsoft, dumber than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

Pops the balloon of the posters on here saying that it was the shooter's "wet dream" or something along those lines because he got to shoot a black guy.