Gun Control & RKBA

flamin lib

(14,559 posts) Thu Mar 10, 2016, 11:58 AM Mar 2016

Dumb guns are soooo much more reliable than smart guns . . .

http://www.guns.com/2016/03/08/michigan-man-names-taurus-remington-in-personal-injury-suit/

Michigan man names Taurus, Remington in personal injury suit

A $75,000 personal injury lawsuit was filed on leap day in a Michigan federal court against Taurus International and Remington Arms.

William Fear, of Brighton, Michigan, says his Taurus Tracker revolver loaded with Remington-brand .41 Magnum ammunition blew up in his hands in September 2013, according to the complaint filed Feb. 29. The lawsuit alleges neither the gun nor ammo met industry standards when they entered commerce.

The explosion caused Fear to suffer serious and permanent injuries to his hands and other parts of his body, the lawsuit says. He has now “become sore and sick and lame and disabled.”
====
The Miami gun company settled a more than $30 million class action suit last year in which the plaintiffs identified a defect with the safety mechanism in nine models of Taurus pistols. The case is expected to wind down in July after the parties involved finish negotiating terms of a recall.

18 replies

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Highlight:

Dumb guns are soooo much more reliable than smart guns . . . (Original Post) flamin lib Mar 2016 OP

wait a minute...wait a minute...wait a minute melm00se Mar 2016 #1

Doesn't prevent, but makes them damn hard to win. nt flamin lib Mar 2016 #5

actually melm00se Mar 2016 #9

Absolutely incorrect. Straw Man Mar 2016 #10

Um, no. Either Taurus or Remington will eat this one. Product liability. nt Eleanors38 Mar 2016 #13

This is a reasonable law suit hack89 Mar 2016 #2

How does this invalidate the claim dumb guns are more reliable? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2016 #3

Maybe the OP author has taken up fishing. JonathanRackham Mar 2016 #4

Best fishing tip in years: Visit the Gungeon, get a bite, pull 'em in! Eleanors38 Mar 2016 #14

And screw... Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #17

Is .41 Magnum ammunition correct for this revolver? Hangingon Mar 2016 #6

I'm always suspicious of handloads DonP Mar 2016 #7

Taurus is a good manufacturer. Hangingon Mar 2016 #8

I view Taurus melm00se Mar 2016 #11

The firing mechanism (which is what the "smart" part of smart guns controls) worked reliably. krispos42 Mar 2016 #12

I'm sure the OP, an owner of multiple firearms by his own admission... Marengo Mar 2016 #16

And then there's that one too. flamin lib Mar 2016 #18

A friend of mine killed his wife and blamed it on his newly acquired Taurus revolver. ileus Mar 2016 #15

melm00se

(4,993 posts)

1. wait a minute...wait a minute...wait a minute

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 12:31 PM

Mar 2016

I thought the PLCAA prevented lawsuits against gun manufacturers?

it must be true, it's all over DU and some of the presidential candidates said so.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)

5. Doesn't prevent, but makes them damn hard to win. nt

Reply to melm00se (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 02:28 PM

Mar 2016

melm00se

(4,993 posts)

9. actually

Reply to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:25 PM

Mar 2016

if the product is, in fact, defective they can be sued:

The PLCAA lists six types of lawsuits that do not qualify as a “qualified civil liability action,”
and that therefore are not barred by the statute. the specific one re: defective is addressed here:

(v) an action for death, physical injuries or property damage resulting directly from a defect in design or manufacture of the product, when used as intended or in a reasonably foreseeable manner, except that where the discharge of the product was caused by a volitional act that constituted a criminal offense, then such act shall be considered the sole proximate cause of any resulting death, personal injuries or property damage;

(emphasis added)

I have seen folks claim that they don't need to know the minutia about firearms to draw conclusions but when talking about the law, the devil is in the minutia.

If you want to have credibility on a topic, you need to have actual read or experience with the topic and this was a simple one: a quick reading of the law as passed would have shown you the facts.

Straw Man

(6,625 posts)

10. Absolutely incorrect.

Reply to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:30 PM

Mar 2016

Doesn't prevent, but makes them damn hard to win.

PLCAA protects the manufacturer against liability for crimes committed with their product. It is in no way applicable to this case, which is a standard product liability issue.

If I were this man, I would consider suing Remington, additionally or exclusively. I have personally encountered some Remington ammunition that was WAY out of spec.

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

13. Um, no. Either Taurus or Remington will eat this one. Product liability. nt

Reply to flamin lib (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 04:18 PM

Mar 2016

hack89

(39,171 posts)

2. This is a reasonable law suit

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 12:33 PM

Mar 2016

guns should not explode.

Making it a smart gun is irrelevant - smart technology would not have prevented this. The smart technology would have added another level of complexity that would have most likely made it less reliable when it comes to actually working when it should.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

3. How does this invalidate the claim dumb guns are more reliable?

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 12:52 PM

Mar 2016

JonathanRackham

(1,604 posts)

4. Maybe the OP author has taken up fishing.

Reply to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 01:13 PM

Mar 2016

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

14. Best fishing tip in years: Visit the Gungeon, get a bite, pull 'em in!

Reply to JonathanRackham (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 04:20 PM

Mar 2016

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

17. And screw...

Reply to Eleanors38 (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 11, 2016, 11:17 AM

Mar 2016

...the bag limits

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)

6. Is .41 Magnum ammunition correct for this revolver?

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 02:48 PM

Mar 2016

I don't know much about the Tracker.

DonP

(6,185 posts)

7. I'm always suspicious of handloads

Reply to Hangingon (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:01 PM

Mar 2016

Double powder charges are usually the cause of a "Ka-Boom" incident.

Even if the ammo was in a factory box, a lot of handloaders re-use the box the ammo came in.

Hangingon

(3,071 posts)

8. Taurus is a good manufacturer.

Reply to DonP (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:07 PM

Mar 2016

One revolver listed in their catalog says it will shoot .410 2.5 shotshells and .45 Colt. Could be the.41 mag is too hot or, as you say, it might be a hot handload. I would like to hear the outcome of this but I expect it will never be reported.

melm00se

(4,993 posts)

11. I view Taurus

Reply to Hangingon (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:35 PM

Mar 2016

as a good gun to have a lifetime warranty on.

i owned a Tracker revolver and it lasted about 3 months before the cylinder got out of synch. I had to send it back 3 times before it was right and then I traded it in for a Ruger Mk III.

I own a Beretta 92 and have shot the Taurus clone. the Beretta is a nice tight well finished pistol, the Taurus, OTOH, is sloppy and loose fitting. It rattles when you shake it (and Taurus claims it is made on the same equipment that the Beretta was before Beretta moved their manufacturing out of Brazil).

krispos42

(49,445 posts)

12. The firing mechanism (which is what the "smart" part of smart guns controls) worked reliably.

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 03:51 PM

Mar 2016

This would have happened with a smart gun because what happened would have happened regardless of the firing mechanism. Because it wasn't related to the firing mechanism.

Hot-loaded ammo, wrong ammo, and/or bad metallurgy makes guns explode.

Honestly I thought this post was going to be about the attempted mass shooting a few days ago when the guy's gun repeatedly jammed.

Marengo

(3,477 posts)

16. I'm sure the OP, an owner of multiple firearms by his own admission...

Reply to krispos42 (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 11, 2016, 01:31 AM

Mar 2016

know this to be true but is counting on the ignorance of the general public to further an agenda.

flamin lib

(14,559 posts)

18. And then there's that one too.

Reply to krispos42 (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 11, 2016, 11:38 AM

Mar 2016

Honestly I thought this post was going to be about the attempted mass shooting a few days ago when the guy's gun repeatedly jammed.

The op is simply pointing out that even really dumb guns are no more reliable and in some cases less reliable than "smart guns".

ileus

(15,396 posts)

15. A friend of mine killed his wife and blamed it on his newly acquired Taurus revolver.

Reply to flamin lib (Original post)

Thu Mar 10, 2016, 08:08 PM

Mar 2016

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