This is a losing issue for Dems, and the sooner it's dropped, the better. A national consensus has already been reached, and it ain't in favor of gun control.

Over the past four years, there have been more than 300 federal court decisions on the constitutionality of gun control. All but a handful of laws have been upheld.

Asking us to compare states that relaxed gun control laws to those who haven't.

Wonder why he deleted it.

I thought I posted in the wrong thread but realized after I deleted that I had posted correctly, but if it makes you happy, here it is again
What I said was and yet more and more states have relaxed their gun control laws so how do you call that gun control. All thats happened is that laws that were already on the books have been held to be constitutional.

You asked us to compare states who have loosened gun control laws against those who haven't.

...and that's why it's deleted and no one but those who read it can disagree.


That's why I do.

I know what I said and it's not what you claim.

How come you won't address the question? Maybe because you don't like the answer...

I didn't think so.

and what you claim I said is not what I said, but we all know just how good your reading comprehension is huh?

Because now no one can read your post.....except perhaps the administrator.....and I hope they can.

Regardless....it's humourous to hear you take me to task for my reading abilities regarding a post you deleted. LOL.

There was nothing derogatory in it and I stand by my statement, humorous or not.

Who said you were derogatory?

Go back and read the complete thread and your story again.

I said 'You asked us to compare states who have loosened gun control laws against those who haven't.'

What's derogatory about that? You've created a rather tangled web.

You made that all up and I stand by my statement.

....oh never mind....LOL.

...oh never mind...LOL. Those that read it before I deleted it know what I said and it's nothing even close to what you dishonestly claim.
Have a good day.

lower courts have been afraid to touch 2A issues. Court battles beside, the vast majority of states enjoy more gun freedom than I do, here, and I'm still much better off than most. Most states don't have FOIDs, asinine waiting periods, arbitrary magazine capacity restrictions, discriminatory carry permit schemes, firearms registries, "assault weapon" bans, or restrictions on ammunition purchasing for adults. There are gun control laws which have been upheld, sure, but in the legislature, 2A rights are on the march, along with the presumption that good people outnumber the bad. Gun control is largely the domain of a handful of holdout states and regions.

Prefer to stand for shutting down the manufacture and sale of new guns and ammo.

There's no justification for making more.

When are you going to start with the passive voice koans?

How do you stop the smuggling of weapons across our southern and northern borders? How do you stop someone from making one in their basement or garage? How do you stop criminals from acquiring firearms?
I would love to hear your solutions.

....according to you.....do nothing. Am I wrong?

Question is what do you think should be done?

enforce the already 30,000+ existing laws on the books before thinking about new laws.

Doesn't he?

that's why I'm waiting for the facts of the case to come out at trial before I make up my mind on whether he is guilty or not. Remember, in out justice system, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers. Unfortunately, there are alot of people here who have already pronounced him guilty.

HERE'S ONE: Without "Stand Your Ground" laws, Zimmerman would have no defense.

as I said, I'm waiting for the trial before I make up my mind.

....compared to before "Stand Your Ground" laws?

But with a murder two, the DA should have her evidence in order. At least I hope.

without a witness(es) the state can't prove a story other than that told by the defendant...with or without SYG, if the shooter claims self defense it is tough to prove otherwise without a witness or catching it on film...self defense has always been a defense for this type of scenario, just previously the shooter had to prove he had no other options and was innocent instead of the state proving beyond a reasonable doubt the contrary.

And that he was on the ground, being beaten by Martin- which means that even in a duty to retreat state, his claims would support self-defense with lethal force, even then.

Of course his claim is bullshit, but we'd be in the same place absent SYG.

Or are you one of those who only bitches, moans, and crys. With no real ideas to change things.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

And criminals will always be able to aquire firearms.

Weavers and ones we haven't heard of yet.

Well I guess thats your choice, me, I'll keep carrying my legally concealed on the off chance that I will need it.

Now that's some funny shit there
But your right, I'll continue to "pollute society" whether you approve or not.

And no matter how many you get or how deadly your latest acquisition, you are still the same.

I dont think he served any jail time.

being a racist isn't against the law and morals are variable to the person who holds them.

I won't hold by breath waiting for an answer that isnt a dodge.

And, if I remember correctly, he was acquitted at trial of weapons charges, but you just keep on beating that dead horse.

to a presumably to a fellow racist "club" member/terrorist.

I guess we should just let the criminal gun element arm every racist pig in this country. NRA would love it, of course. Maybe if the racist pig was not so inclined things would have been different. Similarly, maybe he should have given up to authorities rather than hiding behind his wife, baby, and the gun culture.

Why are so many gun supporters and racists also right wingers?

if he knew it was them who was shooting at them. The dead cops were ruled justifiable homicide in a federal court. I take it you are OK with cops shooting dogs and 14 year old kids in the back, especially if it is people you don't like?

End RKBA, end freedom of speech, end freedom of association, define and outlaw "compounds"

even people we don't like or agree with.

He was clearly entrapped by the ATF and a jury found him not guilty on all weapons charges, and the govt. ended up paying him and his family 3.1 million dollars as a settlement.
But, hey, don't let facts get in your way.
Did you know that ATF agent Byerlee was asked by then Sen. Arlen Specter if he had said that Randy Weaver was a prime suspect in bank robberies in Washington and Oregon, the ATF agent said yes, and when asked if it were true, the agent said no, when asked why he put out that notice, he replied that he wanted to have LEO to view Weaver as a desperate man.
Do you approve of these tactics also?

When you decree that LEAs can lie about, harass, entrap, violate, and kill people on the basis of their opinions, that means that a future administration can lie about, harass, entrap, violate, and kill you and me on the basis of our opinions. That's a dangerous road to walk down, and spite isn't a good reason to start.

Nor should there be no matter what you guys think.

Show me 1, just 1 post where anyone has said they think that, please, just 1.
And no matter how you try to spin it, he was entrapped by the ATF and a jury of his peers found him not guilty of all weapons charges.

Just more of the Hoyt shuffle and sidestep.
I think I've got you figured out now, you want to end the 1A for people you don't like or agree with, you would prefer that the govt go after people whose views you don't agree with, in other words, you prefer a police state.
Got it.

Or are you all hat and no cattle?

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

It's been examined in its historical context and has been soundly recognized as an individual civil right guaranteed regardless of whether a person is in the select, organized, unorganized, or no militia at all.

I'd be impressed by anybody who actually had to nuts to campaign for the repeal of the 2nd Amendment, because that's the only way to enact a total prohibition on firearm ownership by the 99%.

Plessey awaiting its Brown.

to void the mountains of contemporary historical evidence that points to the 2A as an individual right. An anti-civil rights court would have to find a way to discount the commentary of the BoR's authors, contemporary statesmen, state Constitutions before and after the 2A was written, the schemes some states came up with to deprive only certain citizens of their civil rights, and the historical exercise of the individual right for two centuries.

Maybe an online petition would help?

Plessey has met its Brown. McDonald was the Brown to Cruikshank's Plessey. Civil rights lawyers have been chipping away at Cruikshank since the 1930s. McDonald just gave it the coup de grace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Cruikshank

Heller is nothing like Plessey. Plessey took rights away. Heller, like Brown, reaffirmed rights.

the supremacy of the right not to have bullets enter our bodies.

This is a special deal folks, only those that call within the next hour will recieve everything we're about to tell you about.

Take advantage now, of these hits!


"bullets enter our bodies" loudly

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=352368&mesg_id=352380

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=330396&mesg_id=330436

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4883889&mesg_id=4884177

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=353141&mesg_id=353175

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=354632&mesg_id=354680

"bullets enter our bodies" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=354632&mesg_id=354668





And then theres the old favorite "Guns and ammo in the hands of the public":

"Guns and ammo in the hands of the public" - loudly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117228705#post1

"...guns and ammo in the hands of the general public..." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=266391&mesg_id=266468

Guns in the hands of the public..." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=429419&mesg_id=429448

"...guns in the hands of the public" sharesunited tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9656775&mesg_id=9656987

"...guns in the hands of the public..." sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6126985&mesg_id=6127253

"guns in the hands of the public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=330395&mesg_id=330399

"Guns and ammo in the hands of the general public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=266806&mesg_id=266851

"guns and ammo in the hands of the public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=355994&mesg_id=357367

"guns and ammo in the hands of the public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=378992&mesg_id=379112

"Guns in the hands of the public." sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=419892&mesg_id=419894

"Guns in the hands of the general public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1027267&mesg_id=1027975

"guns in the hands of the public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=398802&mesg_id=398850

"Guns in the hands of the general public" sharesunited - tombstoned.

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8337353&mesg_id=8337845






And that chart topper "carrying on dying":

"...carrying on dying ..." loudly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=25553

"...carry on dying..." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=415412&mesg_id=415468

"...Carry On Dying..." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=301410&mesg_id=301490

"...Carry On Dying..." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=275477&mesg_id=275523






And who can forget the classic "Guns cloud judgment":

"Guns cloud judgment". loudly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=459071

"As I have said before... guns cloud judgment." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=308595&mesg_id=308612

"guns cloud judgment" sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/www/:/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=425955&mesg_id=426011

"Guns cloud judgment..." sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x313652

"Guns cloud judgment." sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7446027&mesg_id=7446273

"Guns cloud judgment." sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8132723&mesg_id=8132925

"guns cloud judgment" sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=312691&mesg_id=312724

Guns cloud judgment..." sharesunited - tombstomned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=313651&mesg_id=313652






But wait, theres more! Also included is that old favorite "bullets in your hide" - with slight variations so you'll never tire of it:

"By murdering your stubborn hide." loudly.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117223802#post14

"By killing your hide." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=277573&mesg_id=277577

"By killing that wooly hide of yours." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x252047#252251

"Now, let's weigh her hide against the 2A dead." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x267127#267178

"...by killing your insistent and misguided hide." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=281789&mesg_id=282313

"And that means bullets in innocent bodies, including your old hide." sharesunited - tombstoned (a double hit, "bullets in bodies, AND "your hide" all in one!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=415908&mesg_id=415919

"So is not having bullets enter your hide." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=400631&mesg_id=400663

"You CAN force me to take a bullet in my hide." sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4294235#4295239

"...bullets should GO in their hide?" sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=378807&mesg_id=379353






And then theres "the modernity shuffle!":

"Until the nation was dragged kicking and screaming into modernity on the subject." loudly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117223802#post28

Once again, the federal courts will need to bring the People kicking and screaming into modernity. sharesunited - tombstoned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=352368&mesg_id=352462






And, for a short time only, if you order within the next ten minutes, you'll also recieve "comparing guns to child porn":


"There is a demand for child porn too, but that is being dealt
with." loudly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=23811

"And child pornography should go unchecked because people have young children they can photograph." Sharesunited -tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=416312&mesg_id=416380

"You may as well come out in favor of child pornography as protected by the first amendment." Sharesunited -tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=379235&mesg_id=379303

"Public policy against the mere possession of child pornography illustrates what is possible." Sharesunited -tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php/counterpunch.org/bcnews.go.com/Blotter/www.leftyblogs.com/cgi-bin/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=425726&mesg_id=425747

"Over the counter access to morphine and over the internet access to child pornography." Sharesunited -tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=421906&mesg_id=422022

How did the crusade against child pornography begin? Public policy. Sharesunited -tombstoned.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=415367&mesg_id=415768





But the best part is yet to come folks:

The one order per customer restriction has been lifted! Due to relaxed restrictions on granite and pizzas, you can now order as many copies as you like!

Thats right folks, order as many as you like!

....how some people might get the impression that some gun advocates can lose their sanity if not the focus of a real debate.

...how some people might get the impression that some gun control advocates can lose their sanity if not the focus of a rea debate.

See, I can do that too.

Except mine was related and in resonse to a looney post that sighted dozens of posts using the same phrases and yours was just..... well the typical reactionary post unanchored in a line of reasoning that supports your logic.

when they do the same thing?

.....should I see the same obsessive compulsory post.

Pointing out a returned PPR'd poster (don't bother trying to deny that loudly is sharesunited reincarnated, because nobody is going to buy it) is loony?


Or is it only loony when that PPR'd poster agrees with your anti-gun idoeology?

that works OK in South Korea and UK, not sure how that would work here.

At least not until sufficient attrition reduces the shameful abundance.

Or we can sit around for a decade while gun nuts scarf up another 100 million guns we will have to deal with down the road. Get them off the streets and most pro-gunners will get bored with playing with them at home.

carry was virtually outlawed nationwide in the 70s and 80s. What makes you think we don't enjoy owning guns for recreation, home defense, and collecting?

....going hunting?

or is this just more of the Hoyt shuffle and sidestep?

They didn't and still don't know what a gunshow loophole is...and they won't tell the voters.

First point.....the Supreme Court got it wrong when they recognized an individual right to own a firearm. A third grader could read the context of the 2nd Amendment and understand this has nothing to do with individuals owning firearms outside of their obligation as members of a militia.

Assuming there is an individual right this leads to my second point. Reasonable regulation of any right recognized under the Bill of Rights has been the law of the land from the beginning. None of these rights are absolute.

We have more guns and more gun and other violence of every 1st world country. There must be a correlation between gun availability and ownership with violence.

and yet most scholars recognize it as an individual right, even Larry Tribe, who is very anti gun, has admitted that the 2A is an individual right.

After all, knives and clubs are used in almost as many homicides as firearms according to the DOJ. Ban Ginsu knives and Louisville Sluggers for the children.

Man has been killing man since Cain and Able. The tool used isn't the problem.

And, um, no.

.....you think there are no other factors and the ones you state are related?

...part of the Democratic platform. I'd be happy to see such un-progressive ideology go away and be replaced with a more educated, commonsense-based one. Idiotic bans, closing "loopholes" that don't exist, etc....yeah right fighting gun crime...

LOL.....since when is embracing the GOP gun position progressive?

....and I agree rights need to be defended.

I do not agree that the Second Amendment or any right comes without responsibilities. Nor do I believe the people are wrong to insist such responsibilities are codified into law when appropriate or necessary.

Thanks.

For the record HERE is what our 2008 Party Platform says

....you disagree with your party?

there might be something you don't like. There are those who disagree with this from the 2008:

I support EVERYTHING that platform says regarding firearms......EVERYTHING.

Do you?

platform before it was pulled. I do disagree on the AWB.

.


EDITED
Wasn't pulled and you do not agree with everything in it.

I disagree with one sentence, does that make me a reactionary?

You simply disagree.

No problem.

Never been shy about that fact.

And I was referring to anti-RKBA folks, whatever inconsequential letter that person decides to place next to his name.

.

Until then, I'll stick around, thanks.

If I get kicked off, after many active years, and thousands of posts, most of which are more productive than many posts by a number of regulars, so be it.

Like I said, I've always been open about who I am.

But if you advocate voting for third party candidates, I'm pointing out simply what TOS say.

But heh....knock yourself out.