...I hear you're suspicious on rainy days when you might don head coverings!

my tagname is more poignant than ever

and yes, I do have a penchant for hoodies, very often in the middle of the night because I am a night worker

You mean ammo for practice or additions to the collection?


Obama and Bernie Sanders


Only to the more visible leaders from urban areas. Rank and file, not so much. Part of it is cultural. Part of it is celebrities from privileged backgrounds that actually don't like working class people and use it to hide their bigotry.


generally uninformed or misinformed.


depends


No


Party platforms and people like Grover Norquest see it as a way to divide and conquer.

Being a Dem from Chicago. Mostly Wayne.


why do you spend so much time on anti gun dogmatism?

Just curious.


I don't have any extras and I don't want to go to prison for smuggling. Perhaps some old IRA contacts in Boston and NYC can help them out.

but not as much as someone training for the Olympic pistol team. My number one gun fantasy next to G. Gordan Liddy going back to prison as a felon in possession. But I digress.
couple of boxes of .22s. Don't use the centerfires as much. Maybe my daughter has the right idea, she can reuse the ammo for her compound bow.
I bought two guns in the past five years. That is why Florida's waiting period is not that big of a deal to me. Absurd and pointless, but not inconvenient.

6a) as a follow up, the NRA supported Harry Reid, so I hardly think they are too closely aligned with the Republicans. Rachel Maddow is a NRA supporter. Most of the Republican NRA stereotype comes from Republicans liking the NRA, not as much the other way around.

6b) It can't help any that Eric Holder announced that the assault weapons ban was coming back shortly after entering Obama's cabinet.

except #4-let em rant about what they like for me

6b-paranoid t party types

Do you pay more for family vacations, entertainment, and eating out than you do electing Democrats?

And I give to Dems when I can afford...I'm poor. Also, Democrats being a formal name (noun) is always capitalized in the English language.

Fixed.

Cheers

1) You betcha. My guys always get knocked out in the primaries, anyway...
2) Yep, but not much came of it.
3) I don't think there's that much hostility, but where it exists I attribute it to fundamental disagreements about what are and are not rights, and to what extent a public safety argument can justify restrictions thereof.
4) I think they're incorrect, but that's just one belief. Stereotyping the opposition is bad for recruitment, compromise, and civility. After all, for all I know, Hoyt could be a downright friendly guy to have a beer with.
5) Same thing I'd say to any survivor of violent crime: "Nobody should have to experience that, and I'm sorry you have."
6) Nope -- made the mistake of joining for one year, but let my membership lapse last month. Sent them a little "piss off, lying twats" letter, to boot.
6a) Because there's a lot of money to be made by intentionally sensationalizing news events and terrifying the GOP base.
6b) Because he's a Democrat, and NRA is essentially an organ of the GOP. Besides F&F, his past anti-gun statements have had little effect on his administration.

I spend time spreading the word about gun rights because I believe that RKBA is not just a civil right, but that it's a human right. That, and activism is fun!

1) Nope. In fact, I generally give away more money every month than I've spent in my entire life on guns.
2) Nope. Out of the country right now and (thankfully) not subject to any of the election circus. My money goes to family and friends; I've never contributed to any political party or organization (including gun rights lobbying groups).
3) Brainwashing? I can't answer... I truly don't understand it.
4) They are making decisions based on feelings, not facts or data.
5) The same words of sympathy I would have for those who are victims to gang attacks (I was), drunk drivers (my co-worker was), or airplanes falling out of the sky (like several Va Beach residents were earlier this month).
6) No.
6a) I don't know, but that's one of the many reasons I answered No to #6.
6b) Probably the historical data regarding his positions and statements on the 2nd amendment.

I don't spend any money on buying guns.



Yes.



While the symbols are an elephant and a donkey, a majority in each party act more like sheep, present company excepted.



It varies depending on their reasons.



Usually just sympathies.



No.



Because they are both pro-gun.



He is a Democrat and has said some pro-control things.


----------------------------------------

I consider the task both important and enjoyable, although I'm not sure that it is accurately characterized as "so much".



BTW, extra guns are like extra money, there aren't any.

and am not a member of this forum but this thread feels like you are trying to "call out" DU members. I think you should take it down. On DU2 the thread would have been locked.

This thread

Which is actually more than I've spent on every single gun I own put together.

3. Because a disproportionate amount of the Democratic base comes from highly urbanized, upper class environments where there's a cultural perception of firearms as being at best backward and uncouth, and at worst outright evil. You don't find a lot of powerful Democrats who grew up in places where people had to hunt for food or protect their families, and those who ARE are usually treated as being lesser by those who aren't.

4. They're wrong on the issue, usually because they've been sold a bill of goods that simply isn't true.
5. Magically eliminating guns wouldn't magically eliminate violence.
6. No.

As for your last question, it's because there's a small minority--a minority inside the party, even--who would otherwise love to try and dominate the debate and establish the Democrats as the part of "guns bad!" When solidly three quarters of the American public feels the opposite way, embracing an anti-gun agenda is a good way to basically hand the Republicans the means to completely halt every bit of progress we've made.

1 Nope.

2 Not yet.

3. Because a few loudmouth anti-gun politicians attracted a tiny handful of anti-gun ideologues over time, to the party - though I would say there is a great deal more hostility toward the "gun rights" movement on DU, than there is in the Democratic Party, these days.

Anti-gun ideology is dieing.

4. I think that some people that disagree with me about gun control want less than I support, and some want more than I support. I think that a great many that want more than I do are misinformed as to what laws already exist, and are ignorant of firearms in general, outside "firearms bad, mkay?"

5. I'd say to them, focus on the people who's fault it WAS that they were victims of gun violence. It wasn't mine. It wasn't the nras. It was the people that pulled the trigger. It might have even been people that mandated being disarmed, yet took no measures to protect those they demanded disarmed.

6. nope. I haven't been in over 20 years. I was once upon a time, as part of a gun safety course I took - for a year. Though if anti-gunners begin having any significant successes I might consider becoming a member again.

6a I think many associate the nra with republicans because it serves their agenda - its a club for anti-gunners to beat pro-gunners over the head with on DU - though its somewhat non-effective. The nra endorses Democrats. Such as Harry Reid, Brian Schweitzer, Bill Richardsom, and others. Theres simply no getting around that.

That fact completely disproves claims such as "the nra is an arm of the republican party" and similar claims.

6b. Because of his prior voting record. Anti-gun ideologues have a tendency, after what happened in the 90s, to lie about their beliefs, and their intentions. They tend to be viewed the same as the stereotypical used car salesman - "trust me".

Once you lose the trust of a pro-gunner, on the topic of firearms, its VERY difficult to gain it back - we remember, you see. I can't say I know whats in Obamas mind or his heart, where guns are concerned. What I can say, is there are a great number of people, pro-gun, that don't trust him on the issue, specifically because of his voting record on the gun issue prior to becoming president.

In my view his prior voting record is no more or less relevant than anyone Else's regardless of political affiliation.

"Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?"

Why do I spend so much time refuting anti-gun dogmatism, you mean?

Because I see anti-gun ideologues preying on the ignorant, and trying to rally the ignorant to their cause, to attack what is a constitutionally protected right.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard or saw someone say "nobody needs a machine gun" or "nobody needs an automatic weapon", in a conversation about "assault weapons"...

Because it gets old seeing anti-gun ideologues call for more and more laws, when half the time they don't know what current laws even are.

Because I will not stand idly by while a bunch of people who have a shared ...anywhere from dislike to outright hatred...for things they do not and will not own, try to make that decision for me as well.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?
No. I'm a cheap bastard and other things are more fun than shooting.
2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?
I'm so broke right now if it cost a dime to shit I'd have to throw up. Wait till summer gets here.
3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?
Liberal ideology as it has been marketed and sold to well meaning people who responded to it as consumers rather than as citizens is wrong.
4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?
They are wrong, that's it.
5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?
I am very sorry they had to endure such misfortune.
6) Are you a member of the NRA?
No.
6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?
That's where the money is
6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?
See 6a

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?
I don't. Why would you think otherwise? Insulting people is no way to foster constructive discussion.

Or do you just sit online and rail against those who actively protect gun rights?

If you have a problem with it I suggest you take it up with shadowrider.

If you want me to insult you I can oblige but I have no real reason to do such a thing. At the moment.

nt

1)NO
2)NO, and I have not purchased any firearms this election cycle either because I simply can not afford it.
3)Because many democrats think the prenotion is Gun-owners+Republicans, which is simply not true.
4)They have the right to there opinions as do I.
5)I am sorry about your situation, But it does not effect my stance on Gun Ownership
6)NO
6a)Because there is more support for the NRA on the Republican side, therefore the closely associate themselfs with the side that supports them.
6b)This answer is the same as the one above.

And I do not spend much of my time at all spreading ""pro-gun" "dogmatism". Just like to defend myself when a post like this comes up.

1) I spend more money on pretty much everything than I do electing ANYBODY. The simple fact is that the electorate is more than 3 people, so the chance of your vote mattering is...pretty much nil. Also, the policies that we get from both parties at the national level pretty much consist of "accrete as much power and wealth to the state as possible."

Edit: P.S. Also, guns are useful, unlike politicians.

2) I have never donated anything beyond my voice to any campaign. For an explanation, please see "1)."
3) Because of the University contingent. A small, but incredibly loud and whiny group that, despite their high credentials, simply cannot understand that they often know very little about life "on the ground." They usually talk about peace while wearing Che shirts, you know the type.
4) Situational
5) See "4)"
6) No
6a) Because members of the Republican party closely associated themselves with Pro-RKBA stances during the years where Dems were pushing ineffective legislation against guns, and that legacy won't/can't go away overnight. The parties are lying in the beds they have spent the last 20 years making.
6b) Obama has 2 records, pre- and post-prez, let's call them. One has pudding, one does not. Until the latter gets some pudding, it's all just speculation.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

I don't waste any of my money on electing anyone, I did have a sign up for our sheriff and supervisor last election.

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

I don't donate to anyone political.

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

democrats in general buy into the whole "guns kill people" argument.

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

eh...they're out there what can I do to make them better?

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

Exercise your 2A rights.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

No
6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

They're not.

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

No.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

Why do you spend so much time spreading "anti-gun dogmatism?

Not all gun owners join the NRA, although they are pressured to do so in shops, by clubs and other gun related organizations. Being a liberal gun owning advocate of gun control amongst the tea bag-like brain dead racist spouters of rw talking points is not easy.

Taking criticism from liberals is difficult as well. But it is easy to make the distinction between those who have given serious consideration and thought to the implications of the 2nd amendment, and those who spout blather.

...there are a lot of "tea bag-like brain dead racist spouters of rw talking points" types out there

Also, you need to denounce this post too (of which this one is parody): http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=31446

or am I missing something? Nothing in the OP to denounce.

It's the right link

Liberal gun owners getting it from all sides.... especially the right.

1) Yes. In fact, I spend more money on toothpaste than electing democrats (I don't donate politically).

2) No (see #1)

3) Political rabble rousing based on emotional response is easier than campaigning on facts/statistics.

4) I generally lump people wanting to remove or restrict freedoms in the same group. Throughout history, there are several periods devoted to the expansion of various rights for certain causes. Typically liberals are on the forefront of these push for rights... suffrage, pro-choice, civil rights, social safety nets, etc. I guess the fact that the roots of gun control are racist (in order to keep "those people" disarmed and downtrodden) doesn't bother neo-Liberals.

5) I guess that would depend on the particular situation. Many instances are unique.

6) No.
6a) Because many recent Democratic Party platforms include a push for strong anti-rights action against gun owners.
6b) Likely because of pre-presidential anti gun stances and actions. Obama was solidly in the gun control camp.

Also, your open suggestion to send guns abroad (even as a political statement) is asinine.
That would be illegal international export of arms. If you want taken seriously don't sound like a moron.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

No, my gun purchases and measured in years per gun, not guns per year

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

No, my area so so Democrat dominated the Republicans do not even endorse opposition. I will discuss platforms with people about the national level races to attempt to sway them to Democratic candidates.


3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

The liberal background of many in the party causes a knee jerk reaction rather than thoughtful discourse

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If their views are based on erroneous information I will try to correct the misinformation they have. I do not expect to necessarily change their views but to let them make an educated choice. I will respect whichever they choose.

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

Same as I would to victims of drunk drivers. I am sorry for what they have had to go through.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

Yes. I disagree with the more extreme policies but believe the majority of members are not extremists and will eventually provide a moderating influence

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

Recent history has the Democratic party supporting gun control measures regardless of the effectiveness of the measures. Republicans have basically said "What do you want, we'll give it to you"

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

His track record has been as an anti-gun politician. The theory is that if re-elected so not having to worry about running again he will reveal his true colors and push a strong anti-gun agenda. The scenario has several realty-based flaws but perception is what matters.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

Its fun Actually I am looking for people willing to discuss the matter seriously. Pro-gun people is just preaching to the choir. Most pro-GC will not even consider anything less than half way to a police state. Here I have found people who can vehemently disagree on this issue but have similar overall goals.
If someone does not want to own a gun themselves, I would never try to change their mind. I do believe everyone should be able to make that choice personally rather than being prohibited by law.

With apologies to India and Egypt, the 2A is in the US Constitution. They need to make their own choices.

What is it about a "liberal background" that makes you believe this is the case?

IIRC you are a philosopher so I will concede your expertise in that area. Here is my knuckle-dragger explanation

I am using the pop-culture definition of liberal, not the politico-economic. We are in 2nd and even 3rd generations now of those who believe in liberal ideas. That is social welfare, open expression, question the status quo, high awareness of injustice and concern for the feelings of others. The good parts of political correctness fall in here as well. There is a strong tendency to challenge beliefs, question and be suspicious of authority and strong, centralized power. There is a vein of equality and egalitarianism throughout.

I am in agreement with all of this. (I am a bleeding heart liberal-sometimes)

There is a negative side, the over-the-top political correctness, condescending attitudes of those 'less enlightened', the belief in it is ok to go over the line for a good cause (civil disobedience has its place but limits as well), willingness to excuse actions of the individual to outside factors.

Not all are like this but stereotypically.

The distrust of authority and power is rooted in abuses of such in the past. The symbolic empowering tool of the dictator is the gun. Just as the gun 'made men equal', the converse is true. The symbolism is so strong that I believe the tool has become confused with the action.

We hear x,y,z how having a gun makes you more at risk for crime, accidents, suicide... It overlooks the operator.

I could say we place a loaded gun, hammer, scalpel and 4 ton jack on a table, go for a few beers and pizza then come back in 30 years. They will all be just as we left them except for rust and dust. the tool cannot act without the operator, nor does it control the operator.

This is where I diverge from the main stream party line. To me the argument is false. The tool can be abused but it is a human actor that is the abuser.

The knee-jerk reaction I referred to is 'if we remove the tool, the person cannot act'. Partially true but it has not addressed the underlying issue of the actor.

I have no problem with restrictions that stop the actor and improve safety. Much improved background checks, fine; training requirements, open to discussion... by all means, let's talk reasonable
I do not support 'feel good' laws that are unnecessary or do not affect the actor. AWB- no effect on crime. Waiting periods- minimal if any, may even inhibit defense from abusers, restrict things that 'look mean' (???)... to borrow the line from (I believe Justice Stevens) "what is reasonable about a total ban"


I hope I have been able to express my position. Now if you excuse me, I have to go discover my opposable thumbs

Those things are all characteristics of both sides - liberal and conservative, you my friend have bought the right-wing line bait and sinker.



This is the problem with the right-wing attempt to make this a binary issue. I'm not anti-gun, I'm in favor of more gun control because I think we still have unacceptably high rates of firearm misuse in this country and that we can improve through reform. That's not anti-gun, that's progressive.



You're not quoting John Paul Stevens, you are quoting John Roberts (I used the Google) who as you well know is a Bushie:

Switching gears, Dellinger then argued that the Washington law was a reasonable regulation of gun ownership.



So given that you do favor some regulation (like the vast majority of Americans), why do you think it doesn't happen? Also, the Court in Heller was very clear:



The way I read that the Constitution according to the 5 Republican Justices does not protect your absolute right to an assault rifle.

I don't think he bought into anything, just pointing out hypocrisies and limits of all ideologies.

Reform is a weasel word. My problem with more gun control is that there is no evidence that such laws affect misuse or violence anywhere in the world. There is no before/after improvement, let alone improvement that can be traced to a law. Once more "reforms" are in place, there will be cries for more restrictions because the "reforms" did nothing. I don't know if that is progressive, but it is certainly a fool errand.


Most of the challenges are felons complaining about the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 and Gun Control Act of 1968. Since no one is proposing repealing either of those laws be repealed, that is a bit of a straw man to talk about felons or mental incompetents.


Since assault rifles have been strictly regulated since 1934, I fail to see how it matters. You have been here long enough and is smart enough to realize the common usage of "assault weapon" or assault rifle as something you can get at Wal Mart with just a NICS check is inaccurate and slightly dishonest if you know better. You should know better by now. Semi automatic carbines that look like assault rifles are not assault rifles. If you remove the action and barrel from the "tactical" stock and put it in a wooden stock, you would not call it an "assault weapon." We showed you that, even with the exact same gun. To ignore the technical truths and base policy on emotional BS, is not good policy or reform. It is theater, and theater is never progress.

While gejohnson does sum it up here is some of mine counter views, er counter-counter views?

More like rent to own I am mere speaking here of gun related issues. If you wish to discuss "fiscal resposibilty, marriage equality and family values (to start)" I would be happy to regale you with rants on republican hypocracy. At the moment I save them for my father in law, a $12/hr born again Republican


Agreed. We may not fully see eye to eye on what reforms, but we are going to the same place.


Thanks for the correction, I was going off memory.


IMO the issue is so polarized and that the point-persons, on both sides, are in extremist positions that any attempts at reasonable discussion are stillborn. The pro-gun side has assumed superiority of late and so are pushing to get as much as possible. The pro-GC has fallen into damage control so fights every proposal on principle. Their side has not changed their mantra in twenty years, even on things they have admitted have no positive effect.


If we carry that line of thinking to its logical/absurd end, that only muskets are protected, then the internet, TV, radio would all have no 1A protection, only writing and public speaking. If we assume 'common use' evolves with technology, there could be an argument that the full-auto ban ii unconstitutional.
For the record- I think that would be a bad idea.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?
No. I haven't bought a gun in about three years.

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?
No. Still have doctor bills to pay. I was hospitalized for 10 days and then three months recovering last year. Then last month I had heart surgery. Excellent insurance for both but still have bills left over. Wife had cardio stress test yesterday and tomorrow will be giving two weeks notice to her employer that she will be quiting for health reasons. I quit one of my two jobs yesterday due to health problems. Yesterday was one hell of a day. So you can see that money is fairly tight around here.

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?
The hostility is decreasing. Notice that Obama told everybody to STFU about it. Some of the new pro-gun bills at state level have been sponsored by Democrats and signed a by Democratic governor.

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?
They are poorly informed and often naive. Usually they only know what they see on TV and movies.

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?
Prosecute the criminals. I have done no harm with my guns so leave me, and those like me, alone.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?
Yes, and have been for many years.

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?
Because fewer Democrats are pro-gun. The NRA takes no position on non-gun issues.

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?
Obama's prior record is extremely anti-gun and he has made some anti-gun appointments.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?
I enjoy it. Anti-gunners rarely use logic but instead are emotion driven so if I can get them to use logic I can win.

Why should I send guns to India and Egypt. They can buy genuine, select-fire AK-47s cheaper than I can buy a Jimenez Arms pistol.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

Probably. I've probably spent $1200 in the last 12 months on my hobby of competition shooting.

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

Yes. I donated to Elizabeth Warren, and the web site that ran her donation cause (True Blue? Can't remember). And of course I donate to the NRA which gives high marks to my Democratic candidates here in Alabama.

Edit to add: I'm also a charter member of Progressives United, which I think I paid for last year.

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

The long and short of it is this:

Progressives sometimes believe so strongly in collective action that they ignore or even distrust individual action. This spills over to their stance on things like self-defense.

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

My usual thought is that they are too trusting of their government and lack insight into human nature.

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

Sometimes bad things happen to good people. We should not penalize other good people because of it. We must never give up essential liberty while pursuing safety.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

Yes.

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

Because the bulk of the NRA membership is conservative/Republican.

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

Because his track record on firearm legislation is not good. Most people are skeptical that he has "changed his stripes" concerning firearms. It's more likely that he knows it is politically not feasible to move against guns, which explains his behavior over the last 4 years. Many people fear that in his second term he will have nothing to lose and will thus move on gun control. Personally I doubt it as it would lay waste to his party behind him. Time will tell.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

First and foremost, firearm shooting is fun! It's a great, wholesome hobby that teaches discipline, hard work, teamwork, camaraderie, and safety consciousness.

Secondly, and more importantly, the ability to defend oneself from oppression is a fundamental, Constitutional right. Too many people believe that we have reached the pinnacle of civilization and that we will forevermore live with a benign government. I am very skeptical of this idea. I think people need to have the ability to defend themselves, and should respect those who do.

By the way, I still have my proposal on the table for you to send your excess guns to India and Egypt to help support their RKBA:

I'd probably end up on a terror watch list or worse.

I've spent more on getting my car's transmission fixed ($3,150) than I have electing any one Democrat. I would expect that anyone who's had a major car repair could say the same (unless you're a 1%'er donating to a superpac).

In 2008, I gave the maximum an individual can ($2,500) to the Obama campaign (over five paychecks, not all at once.) I also spent about $300 in gas ferrying elderly voters to the polls, as soon as early voting started.

In 2010, I gave about $600 to the Bill White campaign (ballpark) and $300-$350 to various Democratic candidates. I also ferried more voters to the polls, so add in another $100 or so in gas.

Since then, I've probably given maybe $200 to the Obama campaign (got a couple of t-shirts including the birth certificate one, bumper stickers, etc).

I'm sure I'll be doing more donations this year once the election cycle officially kicks off.

During that same time, I've spent more on eating out (prolly $5,000 since 2008), personal electronics (computers for me and the wife, kindle v3 x 2, kindle fire, ipad, home theater receiver, TVs x 2- say, $5,000), more on my reef hobby (DIY LED fixture for the main tank- $2,100, Aquarium controller- $780, 1hp chiller- $900, various reactors and media, corals- $700)-- more on all those than I've spent on firearms (~$2,200) or electing Democrats in the same period (~$4,000).

Why you're comparing an apple to an orange is beyond me.

In answer to your other questions

3) There actually isn't- not around Democrats I know. It's a very whiny minority who feel pompous and smug, secure in their ethan allen pennitentiary / yuppie concentration camps.

4) If I'm being charitable, I think they're misguided but well-meaning idiots. If not, I consider them dolts who would hand elections to rethuglicans.

5) The same thing I would say to the victims of knife violence, car violence, or fist violence. Why should the means matter in expressing sympathy to a victim? Is a gun violence victim deserving of more sympathy than another?

6) I had let it lapse, but thanks to a thread someone recently posted, I renewed.

6a) They are for anyone who is for protecting the right covered by the second amendment. Because of boneheaded people like Chucky Schumer, Carolyn "shoulder thing that goes up" McCarthy, Frank "I hated the patriot act until I could apply it to guns" Lautenberg and their ilk, Democrats have gotten a black eye with people who support the second amendment. Luckily, NRA donations and endorsements to Democrats has been going back up since it cratered in 1994.

6b) Because his record prior to being president inspires no confidence that he shares the same viewpoints I do about firearms and the second amendment. The fact that he's either changed his mind or is keeping his mouth shut on the issue is promising, though.

7) When did you stop beating your wife?

(Sorry, ask a loaded question, expect to get one in return.)

That you went to such great lengths in your post to argue that expenditures on firearms is not in the same sort of category as political donations proves that I'm correct.

&ob=av2n

The fact that I demonstrated just how stupid your comparison is only highlights how little thought you put into it.

I asked only specifically about guns. Which you could quantify as entertainment, but I really don't think it's the same thing as buying a book or going to a movie, either way you're dodging.

When I showed just how stupid those two things were to compare, you started whining.

I know I'm right when you resort to a cartoon or a video- you can't even rely on your own words.

I do that because it shows how much the mainstream of liberal thought finds your position to be a caricature!

But since you asked:

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

A: Oh yeah. I spend thousands of dollars on protective home and auto insurance too. I also spend thousands of dollars per year on food and cleaning supplies that help maintain my health directly. Politicians aren't as useful, necessary, or entertaining in my life as those other things.

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

A: Sure. Every election cycle.

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

A: Good question. I think "hostility" might be too strong a term, but I largely relate the resistance to gun rights with (mostly willful) ignorance, partiality, prejudice, and extreme idealism. All of us on the left seem to want rights and safety for all, but some of us are extremely idealistic about the measures to take to ensure rights and safety. Sometimes the ideal "safety" involves taking away rights.

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

A: Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I respect that. Keep in mind I am not against "gun control" per say, as in waiting periods, background checks, and assurances that the purchasers are able to keep up their end of the responsibility. I do hope to educate anti-gunners (banners, anti-gun hydrophobes), but, to a large degree, I find their preconceptions ossified and their willingness to consider evidence and reasoning if not absent, then sadly insufficient to sustain discussion.

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

A: I empathize and sympathize with all victims of violent crime. After that I focus on the actual cause of the violence: the two most common being poverty and mental disorder. These are things we can actually do something about to lessen violence.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

A: Nope. Never have, never will.

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

A: The NRA is a lobbying group for big capital interests. The product and distribution that they seek to protect happens to be guns. It could just as well be oil, pharmaceuticals, etc. Republicans are big time capitalists, and the NRA just seeks to protect and expand markets. This is also why the spread fear, which the Republicans are particularly susceptible to. It's a challenge to find guns or even parts at the moment, because conservatives are stockpiling against the imaginary ban. Great for the gun business.

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

A: I can't imagine that the are opposed to Obama. It is part of their business model to "say" they are opposed, to demonize and create fear among their weaker minded members. It's the old Jedi mind trick. The result is, guns and parts are back-ordered like crazy right now, and prices are rising to premium levels. A Democratic opponent is great for business, because a Dem (read as "gun banner&quot is always the bogeyman that their business needs to spur to greater growth.

Extra Credit: Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

A: Not aware of having spread any dogma at all. (you can't really spread dogmatism). I think I have come to most of my conclusions through my own process. I know, philosophically, that no one thinks in a vacuum, but I have considered the evidence and I think that the danger and cost to society is less under the 2nd than it would be without it. I'm pretty sure, as much as one can be sure that he has his very own conclusion, that that is my conclusion, and not a parroting of someone else's lines.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

No, I have not spent money on either in the past 1 1/2 years that I have been un-employed

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

Same as answer #1

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

Because that's the way it's always been. Starting to change a little.

4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

I think they are wrong in their position. That is all

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

Other than sorry that happened to you, nothing much.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

No

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

Because the Rep Party has been more closely aligned with gun rights

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

Due to his history of anti-gun policies, voting record on gun control.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

I love to argue and I think anti-gun people are not honest in their arguements.

Just curious.

By the way, I still have my proposal on the table for you to send your excess guns to India and Egypt to help support their RKBA:

I don't have any excess guns. I didn't know there was such an animal.

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Difference of opinion, tho I think the large amount of disinformation put out there by orgs such as the VPC play a part in it.
4) We disagree. Not much else to say.
5) Sorry your family went through that.
6) No
6a) Because the Republicans support RKBA legislation more than Dems have typically.
6b) Because of his previous voting record (and because WL has lost his damned mind).

As for your last, I don't.

1) Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

No, I bought a new .22 rifle last year and that's the first one I've bought in about 10 years

2) Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

No candidates yet, I did give some money to the local Occupy movement

3) Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

It looks to me like there's less and less hostility every year. I think the Democratic party as a whole has figured out its a losing issue for us


4) What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

I think most are good hearted people and they mean well, but they are emotional and naive rather than rational and logical on the subject. You can write laws on paper all day long, but that's not going to make our society's violence problems go away. End the damned ridiculous drug war and rebuild worker dignity and equity in this country, then take a look at violent crime stats.

5) What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

I can sympathize, I'm also a victim of gun violence, I was shot in the leg by an armed criminal back in the 80s. I'm very sorry for what they are going through.

6) Are you a member of the NRA?

No

6a) Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

Because of the recent history over the last few decades of gun control coming from our party.

6b) Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

Because he has previously not had the best track record re: gun rights

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

Actually I don't, I'm the kind of guy that'll tell you what I think about it, but I'm not going to sit around and argue about it all day every day. I used to, but I just don't have a whole lot of time to waste on it anymore .

Do you spend more money on guns beyond those you need for basic self-defense/hunting than you do electing Democrats?

Donated the legal limit to Pres. Obama's campaign in '08, and 300-400 to the Democratic Party. Would have donated time, but didn't have any. (still don't) In '09 I spent between 400-500 on a second semi-automatic pistol - felt I needed a back-up to the one other that I owned.

Have you donated to a Democratic candidate or Democratic causes this election cycle?

No. Too broke after losing job in '08 - haven't yet recovered. And I haven't purchased any firearms or accessories since then either. The only firearm related spending has been range fees. Keeping some semblance of proficiency is the duty of all gun owners IMO.

Why do you think there is so much hostility to the "gun rights" movement in the Democratic Party?

Could be a very long answer, but let's break it down a bit. I think that a very large part of the problem is that many Dems fail to draw any distinction between military and civilian firearms. The general distaste for war gets attached to all guns. Then, as others have mentioned, many are under-informed, misinformed, and victims of outright lies. ("assault weapons" are fully automatic, etc.) And of course there is Knee Jerk Syndrome.

What do you think of people that disagree with you about gun control?

Depends on how they state their case.

What do you have to say to those who are victims of gun violence through no fault of their own?

Same thing I'd say to anyone is suffering from any negative life situation.

Are you a member of the NRA?

My membership has lapsed. Won't renew in the near term. Like some other Dem RKBA supporters I subscribe to the philosophy of working for change from the inside - so I may renew membership at some future date.

Why do you think the NRA is closely associated with the Republican Party?

Aw gee.......could it be the self-destructive BS many of us have been spewing on the gun restriction issue?

Why do you think the NRA is opposed to President Obama?

His own words, perhaps? As has been correctly pointed out, one of the pro-gun bills he signed was attached to other legislation he wanted passed, and the other was a no-brainer. (unloaded guns in locked hard cases in trains, with advance notice to transport company) So he gets no credit in my view so far.

Why do you spend so much time spreading "pro-gun" dogmatism?

Can't respond any better than another member, so..........

When did you stop kicking your dog? Just curious.

So far, my proposal is collecting dust.

Perhaps that's because it richly deserves to.