My favorite is allowing them in bars and schools.

and mostly refers to restaurants that serve. Ohio is not the first nor is it unique. In other words, it's a non-issue. How do you feel about cop bars?

Too many people kill other people when guns are this prevalent. I understand having a gun in your home if you want, but people running around with them strapped to themselves like it is the wild west is too much for me. Look at the stats on what has happened since the stand your ground laws. Look at the stats between gun deaths here and anywhere around the world. Hell, you can't even drive on a freeway for any distance without someone getting all bent out of shape with some other driver. If they all had guns I would hate to think what would happen. I just feel it invites more problems than it solves. If people are upset with each other, let them hit each other, at least they aren't dead.

At the very least, people who want a gun should have to go through classes on their use and be evaluated for their stability. Look at what happened with that Representative in Arizona. All those unnecessary deaths and for what? I even saw an add for a gun bed... it can hold 30+ guns. Who the hell needs 30+ guns? Who needs automatic weapons and extended clips? I like animals too much for hunting, but at least there is a purpose for those guns. It just seems insane that people apparently stock up on guns and ammo because they think the government is coming for their guns or what... the boogie man is going to jump out from some alley and get you... as if you would even have the time get your gun out?

You think it is a non issue, I do not. Years ago I dated a cop and I dated a fire fighter. We went to bars and get togethers and I don't remember anyone needing a gun nor do I remember them even carrying them? At least a cop has some training (hopefully) not to lose their temper and brandish a fire arm because they have a bug somewhere in their psyche.

And last I looked, the U.S. has no needs dept.. If I want to own 1 or 100 firearms, what business is it of yours or anyone else's?
Just what do you think automatic weapons are? Machine guns have been strictly regulated since I believe 1934 and no new ones have been allowed since 1968 I believe. There are others here who know better than me. You really should educate yourself on this topic before to start talking about it so you don't look bad.

Just sayin.

Considering cops are in the frey so to speak, it makes sense there would be more accidental deaths. That is like saying a fire fighter is more likely to get burnt than an average person. Since I don't want to sound so bad at not being an expert such as yourself, I looked it up... it doesn't change my mind about the mindset that wants to be a cowboy strapped and ready for the OK Corral. Is the world that dangerous that a gun is a better solution than a good self defense class? What is so alluring about a death device? What need does it fill? Just askin...

Semi-automatic AK-type rifles are legal and obtainable in most states of the United States and lets not forget the semi automatic pistols and many sites that explain how to convert them.

You must be 21 to purchase a machine gun in the US. The following states allow private ownership of machine guns if registered with ATF: AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MA, MN, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NJ, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VT, WV, WI, WY. Some states have their own registration requirements, but most just say you have to have it registered with ATF.

Any machine gun that can be privately owned has to have been manufactured and registered prior to May, 1986.

So see, you can own them. What use are they?

really? Just try converting one, not only is it not easy, it's also going to get you a very nasty visit from the BATFE and some hard time in jail.
Machine guns are fun to shoot and if you can afford one, they are a great investment.
You don't want to own guns, fine, thats your right, as it is MY RIGHT TO OWN AS MANY AS I CAN AFFORD.

Other than that, check out the price of ammo and their fire rates. The movie Brewster's Millions come to mind. One thing about Wyoming, don't take it out in the sticks unless it is an established range. Possessing a machine gun in "any game field or forest" might result with a good old boy with a bright red shirt and jeans like this.
It won't be pleasant and he or she won't give a shit about tax stamps and registration.
Now that you have me homesick, I'll have to go and try to convince the wife that Florida sucks.

Really?

drinking while carrying is a felony. If you are willing to commit a felony over something stupid, you might carry permit or not.

The west was not that wild. Actually, more people carried concealed in the tame east in the 19th century. People actually felt safer in the west, and were safer. People in the west did not carry as much because they felt safer. The same is most likely true of places like Vermont and Wyoming even though Brady does not approve of their gun laws.

What stats are those? The one that says "justifiable homicides tripled"? The statistic applies to self defense shootings by cops as well. What does that actually mean? More suspects claiming self defense? Or does that mean more have been ruled as justifiable? If the latter, the question has to be asked, how many innocent people are in prison because the Duty to retreat law put the burden of proof on the shooter? In prison for defending themselves? One example is a lady in Florida who fired a warning shot at her abusive husband. Warning shots are illegal. She is going to prison instead of the asshole who abused her. From the time I have been here, I noticed a lot of "antis" do not approve of people resisting felons or defending themselves (I have the links) It does not apply to just guns, but that is another rant. Most of our gun deaths are suicides. While our murder rate is higher than Europe and Canada, including countries that have as high and maybe higher gun ownership rate as we do, but it has nothing to do with gun laws. Otherwise Thunder Bay, Ontario; Cuidad Juarez; Vancouver; should all have murder rates lower than El Paso. They don't. Thunder Bay is about 4.5 in 2011. El Paso was 0.8. Their murder rates were that low before they passed the laws. Compared to the whole world, the US's murder rate is not that high. A lot of countries have NYC and UK type laws that have astronomical murder rates. Parts of the US have stricter laws than most of Europe. They are also the murder capitols of the US.

Been reading too many Brady talking points. Google "myth of the virgin killer", your fears are not very well founded.

There is no department of needs. Why does anyone need six DVD players or five cars? The "gun bed" is a space saving gun safe, a safe for secure storage. It has the added bonus of being concealed for potential thieves. I fail to see your problem. It is a benefit to keeping guns off of the black market. I fail to see the logic.

automatic weapons are machine guns and have been tightly regulated if not banned since 1934. Your knowledge on self defense issues is what? That is a common talking point, mostly by people who actually know nothing on the subject.

Odds are your cop friend probably was. Some places require officers to carry off duty. Actually, cops don't have any such training. They do receive basic instruction just like I got in boot camp. The average target shooter or hunter is actually a better shot and more knowledgeable. The average NYPD cop can operate his issue Glock, but may have a problem figuring out a Ruger Blackhawk. Statistically, cops are more likey to do something more irresponsible than a citizen. I grew up in a rural area, with guns, and with a lot of cops in my family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I read you firearms related death link. Most I recognized as countries in civil war or drug wars, I am however surprised by Brazil. Nonetheless, does that make us better because we don't kill quite as much as uncivilized actions in other countries? And since you are so willing to make your points by stats of deaths - I like this one; England who doesn't allow hand gun ownership only rifles for hunting and we have a 10.27 vs .46 according to your link. That does not stop them from engaging in war or hunting. Besides, I thought you went to war to keep the violence there, not here? What is the purpose of... what is it called... packing? Do you really think all the people who carry guns are stable?

I know very little guns other than target practice when my father taught me about how to use them. I don't care to. I find self defense more realistic and less dangerous. I realize you know more about gun facts than I, if we were talking economics, politics, psychology, sociology, history, anything almost other than guns, I might stand a better chance. I don't read what was it... something about Brady and virgin myth something or other. If you had a lot of cops in your family then you probably know better than I about their stability. The one I dated was nice and I don't recall a gun on any social scene or even dialog about them.

I guess I just don't understand the attraction. I think about gangs and senseless shootings and think maybe the places in which we call our homes would be better off without any. In England the police don't routinely carry around guns... it doesn't seem to have been so bad for them?

Well, I am new to this and have been at it for hours now and my dogs are starting to surround me with the have you forgotten about us look. I am one of those wierdos who prepares my animals foods and it takes time... so it has been fun. Maybe I will check in tomorrow for any verbal lashings you feel inclined to leave for me.

And its darkest nether region where the sun never shines

Meta. Your compass is broken.

I'm thinking of the Gungeon.

Though they are sighted in other forums and groups on occasion...

Most of our murders are drug wars also. Most murderers and victims have criminal records.

UK had the same before their gun laws, it is about culture. I went to war because I was told to, and I was (like most Air Force folks) what is sometimes called a REMF. Packing? Depends on the individual. I don't, so you have to ask them. The ones I know are. That was not based on population. The countries that have higher rates than we do also have strict gun laws. Last I checked, there was no revolution in Thailand. I felt safer there than in the UK.

"Myth of the Virgin Killer" by criminologist/civil rights lawyer Don Kates and law professor Daniel D. Polsby. Basically it showed that the idea that "most murders are law abiding citizens who snap" is a myth. Such murders are actually quite rare. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=383582&mesg_id=384657

It is a matter of what you associate them with. That is largely cultural based on geography. The UK has more violent crime than most of Europe. As far as unarmed cops go, UK and South Korea are in the minority.

Reminds me of a Magnum PI episode.

Not weird at all. It would suck going through life eating soylent brown.

"So if you were in the service aren't you tired of deadly force?"

Do you think we just run around killing people all fucking day? That's about the most vile anti-military slander/insult I've seen here in some time.

Please take your bigotry elsewhere.

But do you really think that because you choose not to have guns that gangs will then make the same choice?

Who the hell are you, and what gives you the right to judge me or restrict me if I haven't commited crimes or acted dangerously?

Many anti-gun people have predicted the dire things that you have and they just didn't happen. The wild west stayed in fiction where it always was. The real West was rather tame.

Legal concealed carry saves more innocent lives than it takes.

In Texas the detailed statistics are compiled annually by the Department of Public Safety and published on the internet. It is likely that the Texas experience with Concealed Handgun Licenses would be about the same in other states. The last year for which statistics are published is 2009 for convictions. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm

In 2009 there were 402,914 people who had CHLs. Out of those people there was exactly one (1) murder conviction and no manslaughter convictions. Out of the general population there were 600+ convictions for murder in its various forms and manslaughter.
So very, very few CHL holders go bad, but some do.

The DPS also publishes an annual Crime in Texas Report. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/09/citCh3.pdf
From that report, page 15:
Statistics on murder circumstances, victims, and
victim/offender relationships on the next page
include justifiable homicides. Justifiable homicide
is the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the
line of duty or the killing (during the commission
of a felony) of a felon by a private citizen. In
2009, there were 106 justifiable homicides, of
which, 52 were felons killed by private citizens,
and 54 were felons killed by police.

In Texas all homicides, even those that are clearly self-defense, have to go before a grand jury which will rule if the killing was justified or not. So those 52 justified private citizen homicides were ones in which the defender genuinely feared for his life. Since most shooting are merely woundings there would be a much larger number of justified woundings in which the defender genuinely feared for his life, but that number is not kept. Obviously there are dozens of cases each year in which a CHL holder uses their gun to save themselves.

Dozens of innocent lives saved versus one innocent killed shows the concealed carry is working in Texas. As already stated, there is no reason to believe that other CCW states have a different experience.

Legal concealed carry saves lives.

Last edited Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:33 PM - Edit history (1)

No blood running in the streets, no shootouts over parking spaces, no gunfights because of road rage?
What the hell is the matter with the citizens of Ohio? Don't they know that they were supposed to follow the playbook of Brady?

Just pure sarcasm. Glad that police chief saw the light.
Can't wait for our favorite GCA's to show up and tell us why this chief is wrong and that the citizens of Ohio will become like Zman or Lman.

Has gun crime has increased since the passage of CC in Ohio. No, and comes from LEO who should know. Even the police chief who was against it has changed his mind because it is a non issue.

Crime has been going down for years -- might even be lower if you guys weren't responsible for putting millions more guns on the streets.

you're correct, which just proves that relaxed gun laws don't increase crime. Now before all you GCA's jump all over me, I'm not saying more guns=less crime, but, it can certainly be said that more guns doesn't=more crime as proven time and time again as more states relax their gun laws for lawful citizens.

promoting the dang things.

but I seriously doubt it.
Your probably right in that firearm crimes might be lower, but I seriously doubt that violent crime would decrease. The U.K. is a great example of that, they banned handguns but the violent crime rate stayed about the same.

Your point is moot anyway, you will never get rid of firearms in this country which IMHO is a good thing.

I doubt they leave their doors unlocked. Of course, the key to being able to leave them unlocked is for the criminal element to being unwilling to try to enter.

"I was concerned people with no valid reason for having the permit would carry guns with them all the time," Teets said. "As it turns out, that concern was without basis. We have had almost no trouble in law enforcement. Really, I didn't see that we could say no to people that were just business owners trying to protect their stores."

I don't see why you would need a CCW permit to carry a gun on private property anyway, so this doesn't have anything to do with business owners protecting their stores.

But it is almost certainly true that the people who get CCW permits are hardly ever involved in crime, and thus it is entirely believable that they "have had very few complaints regarding those with permits."

And he said they "have had very few complaints regarding those with permits."

Which is unsurprising, given that such people are less likely to be involved in any kind of crime than any other random person in society without a CCW permit.

He did say that there have been very few problems with CCW.

he's running for office.

Where oh where do you come up with this nonsense?

Ask him about fieldstripping and reassembling an M1911 underwater, for example...

Oh, wait, it's your mouth...