Could of held him for police.

How convenient your world must be.

Last edited Sun Jul 1, 2012, 10:54 AM - Edit history (1)

would not have had a gun. So guns didn't accomplish much here.

Yes, a 61-year-old should have "tackled" an assailant who was obviously willing to cause harm to others... until presented with superior force.

Hoyt, your analysis, and knowledge of tactics, seem to come straight out of Hollywood. Which means: They suck moose cock.

As to Mouse stuff, I'll leave that to you.

but that doesn't stop you from claiming that a gun wasn't needed to stop the criminal. The facts are that an older man stopped a violoent criminal by using a gun.

You owe me a new keyboard

This Public Service annaouncement brought to you by the Keyboard Rehabilitation Assocciation of DU (KRADU).

I'd have thrown several cans of beans at the perp. If that didn't work, I'd have grabbed my handy staff to try and intimidate him and as a last resort would have grabbed one of the several front bicycle wheels I keep in the back seat and thrown that.

I don't know why the guy with the gun didn't just approach the perp, disarm him, dismantle his gun and throw the parts in the bushes. That's what any reasonable hero would have done. IMO.

you claim a 72 year old man should be in a nursing home. Here, you expect a 61 year old to go and tackle an assailant who is described in the article as a "career criminal"..

Is it too much to ask that you show a little bit of consistency..as opposed to just making shit up as you go along?

Fact is, guns aren't nearly as necessary as you guys like to believe.

Opinions aren't facts...just thought you'd like to know.

And as for your claim of innocence...that doesn't go over either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/117246691#post5

In light of the evidence presented, I find you guilty of ageism and hypocrisy.

a situation. As to "ageism," you've obviously never had to take the keys away from an elderly person who really shouldn't drive anymore, or guns from an aging parent that is having hallucinations and reaching for their guns to kill ghosts, and the grim reaper. Heck, a bunch of the gunners her admit to being on medications that cloud their judgement, yet they continue to carry.

Anyway, guns are seldom the solution.

As to ageism, you seem to think that all senior citizens have dementia. There is a vast difference between realizing that some senior do need supervision and your constant implications that all seniors need supervision.

... based on age and weight from some particular posters. I suppose gender will be next.

The bigotry on one side of this argument seems to run deep.

not everyone is a total bad ass like you Hoyt.

...to hold a criminal for police?



Well bad ass wouldn't be the first thing to come to my mind. Ass-something probably.

As I always say safety first....risks later.

bravado of how you would face down an armed criminal using your logic and rapier wit...give us a look, OK?

one gun at a time. If I can't get it done with one, why bother.

example of why it's OK for people to carry guns. Although nobody was shot during the altercation the presence of a gun forced the criminal to run, even though he was armed himself. It also shows that not all those who carry guns are blood thirsty idiots. Mr. Terry did an outstanding job of dealing with the situation and no doubt saved the woman's life.

Now we will here from the anti gunners who will go over every wild ass scenario of how this whole thing could have been handled by a nice smile and a little sweet talk.There may even be a suggestion to allow the woman to continue being assaulted while you call 911. Anti gunners are so generous, especially with the lives of others.

with a .45 from the porch of the house.

I also watched a neighbor leisurely shoot out the windows of another neighbor's house with a shotgun.

He claimed "I didn't do nothin'!" when the SWAT team dragged him out.

There was gunfire almost every night in my neighborhood.

One night we were awakened by some poor guy running up the street yelling "Call the Po-lice! Call the Po-lice! They got my youngin'! They got a gun!"

Guns made Athens such a special place.

Not

Seems off topic here.

I think that makes it "brah."

I would like to think that his being armed had nothing to do with it. Can you imagine not helping a woman in such a situation, armed or not. The fact that there were 2 handguns in the mix only made things way more dangerous. Easy options don't always have the best results. Glad it worked out this time.

I am a senior citizen with a moderate disability. For me to attempt to be a Sir Galahad using only my fists against a young violent criminal would be suicidal for me and would not help the lady. With a gun I would have the ability to make a difference, and would help.

Does it take a gun for you to come to the defense of another? I don't see how your age or "moderate disability" has any bearing on your decision to help someone in need. In this case, Terry is 61 and he "jumped out of his truck" and confronted the assailant, 57-year-old Samuel Tyrone Evans, hardly a spring chicken, let alone a "young violent criminal". Regardless, doing the right thing is the key.

Please explain how I would be able to help if I were unarmed. Even at 57 the bad guy is in signifigantly better shape than I am. He would be able to take care of me with one punch and go back to beating on the woman.

Without a gun I could only call 911 and yell at the guy.

I would probably grab a tire iron or similar. Yelling is usually the most effective deterrent in situations like this. In fact, Terry wasn't sure the assailant ever saw the gun. When a mugger/robber picks on a woman, it is an indicator of weakness and cowardice. A man's voice is often sufficient.
Whenever I see an unequal situation like that, I yell very sternly at the bully. They invariably stop. Use age to your advantage. Even "thugs" tend to listen, if not respect, their elders.

Go back and read the thread where an elderly man was jumped by some young thugs for his bike. They didn't seem interested in stopping until he shot one of them.

You seem to think that violent thugs play by the rules. Jumping into such a situation with anything less than a gun, taser, or pepper spray (All stand-off weapons) is a very good way to discover that the thug has just disemboweled you with his knife. Knives are waaay cheaper than guns, and more effective at close combat than a gun is. You claim to have once been in law enforcement yet show such little understanding of the dangers that violent criminals pose.

Taking your advice on how to deal with thugs is a very good way to end up dead.

I think the best way to end up dead is by introducing a firearm into the equation. And if you don't end up dead, then you may end up killing someone, which doesn't seem to bother you, as long as you can label him a "thug".
I have found no need for a gun during my brief sojourn on this planet. A firm voice usually does the trick, and when it doesn't, a little firmer always works.
I haven't been disemboweled yet, never been stabbed, shot or even punched and never had to stab, shoot or punch anyone else. I've raised my voice a few times and found it works. I'm still alive as I approach the end of my seventh decade. You call it naive. I call it living my life to the full.

That may well be the most naive post of all time, on any site!

You may be extremely lucky or skilled, or perhaps you live in an alternate reality. But it is simply not true that a little firmer voice always works, and I hope no one here is foolish enough to actually believe, based on your word, that a little firmer voice will be 100% effective in these situations.

Your post is an insult to all the people who have been severely beaten, raped, tortured, kidnapped and held for ransom or killed. What fools they were to suffer such abuse needlessly, when

Try it sometime. I can highly recommend it.

Last edited Mon Jul 2, 2012, 02:29 AM - Edit history (1)

I own a voice in the baritone/bass range, and I'd NEVER be so stupid and arrogant as to believe that my voice alone could change the behavior of an attacker. The fact that I stand 5' 2" would have a little something to do with that!

TPaine7 is absolutely correct. This has to be one of the most naive/arrogant/assinine posts I've ever encountered on any discussion forum.

and respect it, though I disagree with it, but you made me lol with your line

You are not a trend or a median or a mean.

If your luck runs out and you encouter a violent thug while he is switched on you will get a severe lesson in how the world really works.

Handguns are the most popular tools of violent crime. Adding more of them will never help. The illusion that carrying one helps the individual is absurd.

"The illusion that carrying one [handgun] helps the individual is absurd."

Ask the families of those who used them to commit suicide how the gun helped them. Maybe it did in those cases. Well, helped them die more efficiently, but didn't help those left to grieve. Individuals who carry them for their own "protection", do nothing to enhance public safety. I don't blame them. Most humans are driven by selfishness and fear. But there is a greater good, beyond the personal safety of the individual. If you recognize that, you will never carry just to protect yourself.

While the CCW by individuals may or may not help society as you see fit, that is not your original claim that you were asked to defend. Should we take this as a withdrawal of the claim, or would you like to try again to support it?

There is no evidence that carrying helps the individual. It makes it easier for the carrier to shoot someone. If that's what you call help, then you're right and I'm wrong. It gives the carrier a sense of security that, IMO is delusional, except in the most exceptional of circumstances.
Nobody should carry a gun in public without highly specialized training on all levels, from public safety and legal issues to marksmanship and the psychology of confrontation.
The current trend is, at best, irresponsible at the individual choice level and lunacy at the advocacy level. It will eventually lead to the banning of all handguns, which may not be all that bad.

...as you do about self-defense and statistical analysis.

That would be fuck-all...

Your knowledge of me?

Remember, many a true word is said in jest.

to disarm us, to take away our guns.

What makes you think they wouldn't simply take away your tire iron with the same ninja skills?

and I would be glaring at them with a steely look that would make their blood turn cold. All their ninja skills would be neutralized. Plus, I wouldn't hesitate to use a tire iron or baseball bat. I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over breaking a bone or two, but killing someone who wasn't trying to kill me, that would not be good.

Firm voice, steely glare, can of beans, bicycle tire, flying tackles and maybe a jo staff.

Good luck with your dojo, Starboard-san.

No one could really be that obtuse, could they?

Some of the folks making these comical comments have also made (apparently) serious arguments against the RKBA.

Who knows, though? This is the internet; maybe they're all staunch gun rights supporters making anti-gun views look as silly as they actually are. Maybe most of their posts are so short because they have to stop laughing to type.

Anything's possible.

Why would anyone need a can of beans and a bicycle tire? Trust me, the firm voice alone should do the trick. It takes a little practice.

At the time I worked as a plainclothes store dectective, watching for and arresting shoplifters. I carried concealed as part of the job. To be able to do that I was licensed as a deputy policeman with the New Orlean Police Department. I could carry concealed only on the job and while commuting to and from home to work. I was carrying a .45. After getting off work at about 10PM, while driving hom I saw a woman with a terrified look on her face running alongside the road, then about fifty yards behind her I saw a young man with a very angry look on his face. In my rearview I saw her turn up a side street. I did a U-turn (traffic was very light) and went up the same street. I found her, stopped, flashed my badge, and offered to help her escape. She got in the car, explaining that the guy was her boy friend who sometimes beat her and he was angry at her. I took her to the nearest police station, explained to the officer what I had done, and turned her over to them. I never found out the result.

Because I was in a car, I probably would have done the same, even if I didn't have the gun, but I felt more secure having the gun. I did not have to confront the guy.

It is never an easy decision to make, especially getting in the middle of a domestic dispute. However, I have found that men who are violent towards women are invariably cowards and just giving them the idea that if they don't quit, they will be sorry, is highly effective. I'm not being cute or naive when I say this, but bullies are best dealt with by what they perceive as the voice of authority. By the voice of authority, I mean make it sound like it's coming from god, or a drill sergeant, same thing.

about, but they certainly exist.

After the voice of "God" fails, you better have something that packs a "godlike" punch when you run into them.

I have jumped in many times when I've witnessed a man strike his wife/girlfriend. Most times the "voice of god" works. If not, the cellphone to the ear has always done the trick. The pimp beating his whore might take a tad more finesse, like putting my vehicle between us, as I extract a tire iron, while talking into the phone. I also find cameras highly effective. Depending on location, a handy garden or dock hose can send a good message. Bullies need to be exposed for what they are. A lesson in humility and a little embarrassment is good medicine.

You can be so silly at times. Perry having a gun did not cause the perp to have a gun.

and in a locked case, or maybe the gun was left in there by her SO, and she did not know it was there, or both.

Loaded or not, if the perp had pointed it, the rescuer might have started shooting and who knows what the result might have been.

If the perp had pulled out the lady;s gun the most likely result would have been a dead or wounded perp. Note: "Most likely" does not mean "100% certain".

Everyone got lucky in this situation. Mighty lucky, especially considering some of the bad decisions made by all the players.

The rescuer didn't seem to think the guy saw it. His presence and yelling was probably enough.

But what happens if it doesn't? Then what?
FYI, tomorrow I'm starting the process for my concealed carry permit.

refusing to consider the potential outcome if he had been armed.

Win-win for you, huh?

They were both struggling over her bag after she was punched to the ground.

‘You get down and turn her loose or I’ll shoot,’” Terry said in an interview Friday with the Athens Banner-Herald.
“I got within about 15 feet of them and told him to ‘get down or I’ll shoot’ two or three times, and when he saw I meant business he turned her loose and ran,” Terry said.

The better one might be to let go of the mutually held bag, as suggested by the article.

He can't run while holding her. At a distance of three feet the rescuer won't have to worry about missing and hitting the woman.

I oppose RKBA”!