Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 12:39 PM Aug 2012

PA politicians may be overestimating the firepower of the NRA

http://www.citypaper.net/news/2012-08-09-whos-afraid-of-the-nra-gun-lobby-philadelphia.html


On March 12, teenage cousins riding ATVs through the streets of North Philadelphia died when a man opened fire with an AK-47. So far this year, 174 Philadelphians have been killed by a firearm. There have been 808 shootings altogether.

The steady beat of African-American and Latino street-corner homicides in cities like Philadelphia is not infrequently punctuated by mass killings in typically whiter and more suburban locales — most recently, the Sikh temple shooting in Wisconsin that left six dead, and the Aurora, Colo., screening of The Dark Knight Rises where a man opened fire, killing 12 and wounding 58.

Philadelphia has the equivalent of one Aurora every two weeks.Yet there has been no serious move to strengthen background checks to ensure that people with mental-health problems cannot purchase a firearm, to bar mail-order ammunition sales, or to prohibit high-capacity magazines and assault weapons.

American elected officials are paralyzed by the same fear of the National Rifle Association (NRA) that has long stalked politics in Pennsylvania, where legislators consistently block measures aimed at stopping “straw purchasers” by limiting handgun purchases to one per month and requiring gun owners to report lost or stolen weapons. Philadelphia’s own gun-control efforts have been hamstrung by NRA-powered resistance from Harrisburg, meaning the lobby is effectively writing the law on firearms in the city and state. It seems our state legislators are afraid of the NRA. But should they be?
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
PA politicians may be overestimating the firepower of the NRA (Original Post) xchrom Aug 2012 OP
You've obviously never been to PA before. rDigital Aug 2012 #1
It's funny because it's true. Callisto32 Aug 2012 #2
Pretty much this... Reasonable_Argument Aug 2012 #3
I wish the antis would mak up their minds and use the same memo. GreenStormCloud Aug 2012 #4
Good picture bongbong Aug 2012 #5
"Philadelphia has the equivalent of one Aurora every two weeks." Glassunion Aug 2012 #6
174 Philadelphians have been killed by a firearm...guns shooting people ileus Aug 2012 #7
My gun must be defective. It has yet to shoot anyone. Further, it's never pointed itself shadowrider Aug 2012 #8
 
3. Pretty much this...
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 01:54 PM
Aug 2012

It's the same in Ohio. If you want to see the public quickly turn against you in large numbers go after gun rights. Even my fellow liberals in this state will give you a resounding NO if you try. If you want to reelect the president, as most of us do, then this is a dead issue. Move on.

GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)
4. I wish the antis would mak up their minds and use the same memo.
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 02:16 PM
Aug 2012

There are threads here that lament the awesome power of the NRA, and other threads that claim the NRA is a paper dragon.

Which is it? All powerful demon that owns congress and most state governments, or kitten with a megaphone?

 

bongbong

(5,436 posts)
5. Good picture
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 04:14 PM
Aug 2012

Pretty accurate picture of the "tough guys" who are too scared to leave their house without packing heat.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
6. "Philadelphia has the equivalent of one Aurora every two weeks."
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
Aug 2012

"Yet there has been no serious move to strengthen background checks to ensure that people with mental-health problems cannot purchase a firearm, to bar mail-order ammunition sales, or to prohibit high-capacity magazines and assault weapons."

Philadelphia does not have an issue with mental health background checks, mail order ammunition, high capacity magazines or assault weapons.

Philadelphia does have a huge problem with drugs and gangs. Drug dealers and gang members do not shop for firearms in gun shops, not do they order ammunition online. The popular weapons are small concealable handguns, not "assault weapons". If you look at the crime maps for Philly, the vast majority of assaults are on the north side(north of Market Street) of Philly in gang and drug riddled neighborhoods. The weapons of choice are handguns, knives and hands and feet.

The vast majority of legal firearm owners do report a lost or stolen firearm. Why does it have to be a felony to not do so?

Also, "straw-purchasing" for a felon or otherwise prohibited person is already against federal law and carries a penalty of 10 years.

Perhaps enforcement is an issue?

Federal law,

18 U.S.C. Sec922(q) (prohibits possession of a firearm on school property). Between 1999-2000 there were 2,837 students caught with a firearm at a school (see: Department of Education, “Report on State/Territory Implementation of the Gun-Free Schools Act – 1999-2000,” July 2002.). Out of those 2,837 individuals (who were caught), only 40 cases (1%) were prosecuted (see:U.S. Department of Justice, Crime in the United States, 2001).

How about prohibited persons in general. Making false statements on ATF form 4473 is a federal crime and carries a 10 year penalty. Persons prevented from receiving a firearm because of a rejected background check are subject to arrest if they have submitted false information on their application, in violation of 18 U.S.C. Section 922(a)(6) or 924(a)(1)(A). From 2000 to 2002 there were roughly 450,000 applicants rejected after signing that very form certifying that they had no record that would deny them a firearm (see: Bureau of Justice Statistics, Background Checks for Firearm Transfers, 2001). Of those 450,000 rejections, let's break those down.

260,000 were denied due to a previous felony conviction.
60,000 were denied because of a domestic restraining order.
25,000 were denied because of an outstanding arrest warrant.
Total: 345,000 people that broke federal law trying to obtain a firearm. Total federal charges brought.... 1,594. Yep, that's it, only about 4 people out of 1,000 are prosecuted for violating these two laws. If only the ATF form required that the applicant put their name, address, and perhaps SSN, it would make it so damn easy to know exactly where to pick up the criminal. Damn NRA blocks everything, allowing just any anonymous convicted felon individual unfettered access to a firearm.

"Throughout the Eastern District of Kentucky, more than 1,000 people have lied on firearms applications in the past three years. In most cases, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms simply sends the liars a letter telling them not to repeat the crime." (see: Lexington Herald-Leader, February 4, 2002)

Now let's look at PA. To some it is awash in guns... An NRA utopia if you will. They pass out assault rifles at the border to everyone. There are shootouts over parking spaces and little league games. Etc... Yet somehow they catch and convict at a higher rate than the federal government. You see, they (the evil gun lovers of PA) did not like how the NICS system worked. So they made it better. You see when someone is denied in the federal system, there are too many levels that get involved. You have the dealer who contacts the FBI to run a check on an ATF form and if denied by the FBI, the FBI would send it over to the ATF and the ATF would then decide if they want to send it over to the DOJ and then the DOJ would decide if they wish to press charges. PA has their own system. PICS. This system runs against the PA state and the federal NICS databases. It works differently when there is a denial. Every denial comes back to the dealer and if there is a specific code (felons, fugitives, etc...) the dealer is to contact the local police immediately and since it is PA's system the state police know instantly as well. Imagine that? Real time police work... During the same period of 2000 to 2002, PA identified and apprehended 357 fugitives. It also resulted in 614 firearm violation charges. That is 1/3 of the total of the entire federal government. I cannot find figures on any fugitive apprehensions using the federal NICS system.

What good would a new unenforced law do for crime? What good would 100 unenforced laws do? How about 1,000 or 20,000? You end up with what we have now. New laws are not needed. Funding, training and honest enforcement of the existing laws are what is needed. Then I think you would see a big difference.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
7. 174 Philadelphians have been killed by a firearm...guns shooting people
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 05:42 PM
Aug 2012

guns always shooting people...

shadowrider

(4,941 posts)
8. My gun must be defective. It has yet to shoot anyone. Further, it's never pointed itself
Fri Aug 10, 2012, 05:50 PM
Aug 2012

at anyone. Further, it's never had the desire to shoot anyone.

Maybe I need a refund or something.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»PA politicians may be ove...