Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumDebunking the ‘gun control is racist’ smear
The Only Black
In the wake of the Supreme Courts recent 5-4 ruling in McDonald v. Chicago, however, the gun control is racist argument is all the rage. The June 28 decision overturned Chicagos longstanding handgun ban and ruled that the Second Amendment applies to the states. The lead plaintiff in the case, Otis McDonald, is a 76 year-old African-American who wants a handgun for self-defense. I would like to have a handgun so I could keep it right by my bed, just in case somebody might want to come in my house, McDonald explained. The problem is that criminals never visit McDonald when he is homeloaded shotguns have been stolen from his home on multiple occasions while he was away. McDonald might have bought those shotguns to protect himself and his family, but they ended up on the street in criminal hands and might have been used to intimidate, injure or kill innocent people.
McDonald has long been a gun rights activist in Illinois, traveling to rallies in Springfield, Illinois, where he was probably the only black person. When attorney Alan Gura selected him as the lead plaintiff in the case, he inquired, Why would you name (the case) after me? Is it just because Im the only black (plaintiff)?
--- snip ---
This is not to say that there were not discriminatory gun control laws at this timeand other timesin our history that specifically targeted blacks. But the fact is that for most of our 234 years, the entire U.S. legal system has been arrayed against blacks. Using gun rights activists weak logic, one could claim that virtually any type of law has racist origins: property laws, marriage laws, tort laws, contract laws, etc., etc. Just because there was once racial inequity in certain, long-abolished laws, however, does not mean we should abandon all efforts at government regulation.
http://wagingnonviolence.org/2010/09/debunking-the-gun-control-is-racist-smear/
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)what McDonald said, did they ask him?
A few more things, Rosa Parks was a gun owner, so was King. Applied for a CCW in 1956. Nonviolence as a mass movement is different than when the Klan showed up to your door, and King wrote about that as well.
ileus
(15,396 posts)Berserker
(3,419 posts)emanated mostly from obscure right-wing and libertarian websites like LizMichael.com or The Campaign for Liberty.
Why are you posting it on a Democratic site? I have never read anything like this on DU. We are a RKBA group
for the most part and the other part is google dumps and anti-self defense groups.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)You should read friend of court brief submitted by georgiacarry on behalf of heller. Excellent summation of the deep history of racist gun control legislation in south. Google up mr. shierril comments on the passage of 1968 gun control act. Think inner city riots.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And the motivation behind that was decidedly racist.
In any event, the piece got pretty well sliced, diced and julienned in the comments section
beevul
(12,194 posts)Ladd Everitt is the Director of Communications at the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
"Lieing" ladd everitt.
Please.
One does not have to look very hard to find his lies, half-truths, outright misrepresentations, and misbehavior leading to csgv twitter account suspension, etc.
Neither he, nor CSGV is credible in any way shape size or form.
If I were a betting man, I'd wager you knew that, and I'd give odds.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Freeman (blackgunowners.org) says:
December 16, 2010 at 11:13 am
(reposting with better formatting)
This was an interesting read. As a Black man who grew up on the South Side of Chicago, as a gun owner and as a believer in Black Self-Defense I happen to run up against most of the topics covered in this article.
1. I agree with the author that there are many dishonest people in the 2nd Amendment movement who use the gun control is racist argument as a convenient tool to help hammer their political nail.
2. I agree that historical examples of Black Self-Defense have been met with even more powerful examples of State-driven and community-driven repression. Likewise,
3. I agree that legally-armed contemporary Black people are likely to be targeted for police attention and, perhaps, abuse.
As an aside, I find it odd that the author completely fails to make any mention of The Black Panther Party for Self-Defense and the resulting repressive California gun laws as signed by Republican Idol Ronald Reagan.
4. I agree that its an unfortunate condition that leaves Black and brown communities vulnerable to a pandemic of gun violence.
WHERE I DISAGREE
5. I disagree that the absence of Black faces in 2nd Amendment events is indicative of Black political thought. Its important to note that (anecdotally-speaking) Black people do not typically frame gun ownership in the terms of the constitution, so the idea of a 2nd Amendment is a conversational non-starter. Further, Black people, in general, are largely absent from public demonstrations and political rallies.
6. The Pew poll lacks nuance. It fails to demonstrate any numbers to demonstrate any degree of a gap
among gun owners that involves ethnicity. In short, how do Black gun owners feel about gun control? One must ask the right questions of the right people to get complete answers.
E.g., My mother is highly likely to agree that controlling gun access is important, but she also owns her own .38 revolver and will not be forfeiting it to anyone.
7. I disagree that arming ones self for self-defense is in itself anathema to non-violence. Sure, King-ian or Ghandi-esque philosophy might suggest thats so, but neither of them are here to clarify the position. Both, of course, having been assassinated by armed opposition.
By my estimation, Black people and communities can either adhere to an outsiders philosophy of non-violence and leave ourselves vulnerable as the only people without viable means of defending ourselves. Or we can create a culture of community and family self-defense that challenges the perspective of Black gun ownership and perhaps can shift the balance away from the modern position of the gun-as-a-fetish toward the return to a fundamental respect for the gun as a tool for self-defense, sport or sustenance.
While this was a well-written article, I believe the author possesses an unrealistic, outdated (dare I say nostalgic) view of Black community self-defense and would likely benefit greatly by getting away from the statistics for a while and talking with real life Black people about violence, non-violence, self-defense and gun control.
You can start over at http://www.blackgunowners.org
And after that, you can follow this link: http://www.lizmichael.com/racistgc.htm
PavePusher
(15,374 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)The comment about his Mother was also a good chuckle and spot on:
Atypical Liberal
(5,412 posts)GreenStormCloud
(12,072 posts)MLK's non-violence was used against those who used legal violence. When the police brought out the fire hoses and dogs and clubs, they used non-violence and it was effective.
When the Klan arrived to shoot up the black parts of town at night, then the Deacons returned fire and the Klan fled.
Both non-violence and violent resistance had their place.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Often the relationship between racism and gun control was direct and obvious. On other occasions the connection was more complex. One example of a complex relationship between economic struggle, slavery, and possession of arms can be found in seventeenth-century Virginia. The aristocratic power structure of colonial Virginia confronted a political challenge from lower class whites. These poor whites resented how the men who controlled the government used that power to concentrate wealth into a small number of hands. These wealthy feeders at the government trough would have disarmed poor whites, but the threat of both Indian and pirate attack made this impractical; all white men "were armed and had to be armed." 5) Instead of empowering poor whites, blacks, who had occupied a poorly defined status between indentured servant and slave, were reduced to hereditary chattel slavery. In this way poor whites could be economically advantaged without the upper class having to give up its privileges.(6)
-snip-
The fear of armed blacks had become so extreme that dogs were considered weapons. Maryland prohibited free blacks from owning dogs without a license and authorized any white to kill an unlicensed dog owned by a free black.(14) Mississippi went further and prohibited any ownership of a dog by a black person, without even a provision for licensed ownership.(15)
-snip-
Sherrill failed to provide "smoking gun" evidence for his claim, but there is no shortage of evidence of the level of fear that gripped white America in the late 1960s. The California Legislature adopted a major new arms law in 1967, for the first time prohibiting the open carrying of firearms in cities.(57) This law easily passed after the Black Panthers demonstrated against it by walking into the Assembly Chamber carrying "pistols, rifles, [and] at least one sawed-off shotgun." 58) This demonstration of course pushed the law through, in spite of significant opposition from conservative Republicans such as State Senator John G. Schmitz.(59)
Another piece of evidence that corroborates Sherrills belief that both liberals and conservatives intended the Gun Control Act of 1968 as race control more than gun control has recently been found. There are strong similarities between the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the 1938 weapons law adopted by Nazi Germany.(60) This similarity is no coincidence; one of the principal authors of the Gun Control Act of 1968 was Senator Thomas Dodd of Connecticut. After World War II, Dodd was assistant to the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg war crime trials.(61) Shortly before the Gun Control Act of 1968 was written, Dodd asked the Library of Congress to translate the 1938 German weapons law into English. {22} Dodd supplied the German text.(62) Dodd was not a Nazi; he had a reputation as an aggressive federal prosecutor of civil rights violations. Furthermore, it seems unlikely that any sort of American Holocaust was intended. Nonetheless, it would not be surprising if Dodd found it convenient to adapt a law that had already proven its efficacy at disarming a minority group.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Carry on.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)"Just call the cops" doesn't help so much when the cops are just going to sit back and watch you get lynched (or participate).
That being said just because many racists support disarming people doesn't mean that everyone who supports universal disarmament is a racist.
Some are simply classist. Who is more likely to get a prompt police response or be able to afford private security? The rich or the poor? In that case "those people" would mean the poor rather than ethnic minorities.
And of course some are entirely well meaning but naive.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)early gun control advocate upon passage of the above-cited act.
He wasn't fooled. Why are you?
You may wish to look up "Saturday Night special" on Wikipedia, a good summation of the veritable stew of racism which marks gun-control measures. And it wasn't just blacks. When the "Sullivan Law" were passed in NYC, it was accompanied by a full measure of anti-Italian sentiment (seems the city was governed by the Irish mob, and they couldn't stand the competition). The anti-Italian sentiment was carried over into early hunting regulations by William Hornaday (early director of the Bronx Zoo) which called for banning the sale of arms to Italians.
Bocks Car
(25 posts)...
Glaug-Eldare
(1,089 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:47 AM - Edit history (1)
Virtually every gun restriction in Maryland's history targets blacks in particular, from the 1831 requirement for blacks to get permission to own a gun, to the 1904 prohibition on carrying without subjective "apprehended danger" (i.e., carrying while black), to the 1972 requirement for carry permits after racial friction in 1968, to the 1988 prohibition on affordable handguns (for the purpose of pricing them out of blacks' reach), and so on and so forth
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The record of racism and gun control is so extensive, the op can only bring attention to it.
BlackhawkPaul
(8 posts)Illinois is the ONLY state with no CCW permit system of any type for law abiding citizens under any circumstances. Black plaintiff Mc Donald is from Chicago which has a complex, expensive duplicate owner ID card system in addition to the Illinois gun owner registration system and Chicago requires re-registration of owners and guns every 3 years for $100 for owner and $60 per gun. Chicago's black ghettos are breaking ALL records for violence and the honest citizens are presumptively unarmed so the gangsters rule. Given the demographics of Chicago's and Illinois' electorate this situation will not significantly change. With all the technicalities and the prevailing attitudes of hoplophobia and politically correct blame-shifting regarding responsibility Chicagoans who live in primarily black South and West Sides are functionally and practically entirely unable to defend themselves. Chicago aldermen and other elected officials are allowed to carry guns under special ordinances.