Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forum14 year old uses a shotgun to kill a man...
The man he killed was one in a group of 4 men, that was smashing down the door to his home, where he and his 17 year old sister was staying alone.
He defended his home and family. Will not be charged under North Carolina's Castle Law..
http://www.wafb.com/story/16447781/nc-boy-14-shoots-intruder-and-saves-sister
Wistful Vista
(136 posts)applegrove
(118,845 posts)virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)Are you saying that was a fantasy???? Why would you say such a thing?
applegrove
(118,845 posts)about protecting their own 'homestead'. And so they'll go out and buy guns. This is a cycle.
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)Their are real threats out their...Your the one calling them "fantasy"
ileus
(15,396 posts)Guns didn't make the perps decide to break down a door.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)Straw Man
(6,626 posts)What happens next in your formulation? In what sense is it cyclic?
applegrove
(118,845 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)
to feel afraid that gub'ment will take your gun away, then you vote GOP, then funding is cut to pell grants, cuts to police, cuts to public schools and cuts to the needs of the poor, there is more crime, more fear, more fantacies, more guns, more fear of gub'ment taking your gun away, more GOP, more fear of government, more inequality and then you suddenly realize you are living in Mexico.
virginia mountainman
(5,046 posts)You shoot a burglar, THAN you get a gun????
Nothing else needs to be said....
applegrove
(118,845 posts)Last edited Fri Jan 13, 2012, 12:20 AM - Edit history (1)
I guess you can't very well fight my main point can you?
applegrove
(118,845 posts)Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Cycle broken.
...tock, tock, tock.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)I love portmanteau words...
Of course you must realize that all this control hysteria feeds the paranoia.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)oneshooter
(8,614 posts)wish to impose on the US the homeowner would be arrested for not having the firearms"properly secured". The fact that the 14yr old could have access to them, and ammunition being proof. The firearms would be removed from the property, the license revoked, and the parents facing prison sentences and fines. The children would then be raised by the state.
Of course it is possible that without the firearm the goblins would have simply got the "stuff" that they wanted and left.
Or it also a possibility that they would have tied up the children and left them in the home.
Or it is a possibility that they could have done the above, then burned the house to cover thier crime.
So many possible scenerios to consider.
Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Well this is really my first time I have heard of this mental process of fantasizing about killing burgulars.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)gun owners never imagine using said gun? ....Interesting. I don't imagine myself with a gun and will never own one. But I do have a vacuum cleaner that needs to be fixed and whenever I think of doing that I do imagine myself vacuuming at some point....
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)are you accusing DUers of fantasizing about killing people? Because that would be in some poor fucking taste, yet it certainly looks like what you're doing.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)hell little boys do it all day long with pretend guns. Are you saying people will buy something expensive that they never ever imagined using? Really? Not one little fantasy of pulling out a gun and saying "stop". One time. Before the trip to the gun store? Never?
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)a clear connotation. Imagining the use of something, or preparing to use something, is not "fantasizing," which implies (as your usage makes clear) a pleasurable daydreaming. I don't know what makes up your fantasies, but a dangerous criminal breaking into my house is not on my mental playlist, and others here have told you the same yet you persist in smearing DU gun owners. It's telling that you had to go back to "little boys" with pretend guns to justify your assumptions about the people here.
We_Have_A_Problem
(2,112 posts)...getting into a car accident every time I put on my seatbelt?
Come up with something new. This argument is so old it farts dust.
E6-B
(153 posts)Use what ever prejudice you feel necessary to justify your ideas. It is a free country.
SteveW
(754 posts)Keep in mind, with all respect, that planning reasonable home security (with or without a gun) requires imagining scenarios and problems, but maybe those are "fantasies" as well.
BiggJawn
(23,051 posts)My gun fantasy is that some day before I die...
I'll be a good enough Marksman with a rifle to shoot at the National Matches at Camp Perry.
WTF is it with you that you think all gun owners "fantasize" about killing somebody? You ever consider talking to a professional about this problem of yours?
We_Have_A_Problem
(2,112 posts)The whole penis substitute meme had failed, then the fear canard was debunked, "blood in the streets" never happened, so they had to come up with SOMETHING...
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)...Mexican gun laws are far tougher than those in the US. How did all that inequality happen there?
applegrove
(118,845 posts)and the 2/3 poor cannot afford to buy guns to protect themselves. Fact is the powers that be never allowed a middle class in Mexico. The powers that be in the USA lost to FDR and others. So the USA had good class mobility until wedge issues like guns, and fear were stirred up by the current powers that be.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Somehow I doubt that.
Message: stock up now folks, while you still have a few coins in your pocket.
See how the hysteria works?
Guns as a wedge issue were handed to the Republicans on a silver platter. Let's not let that happen again.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)better lifestyle it offers... if only you are ready to kill.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)I think you're pulling figures out of the air. I know that there is extreme income inequality in Mexico, and that income inequality in the US is growing. Your suggestion that the latter case is somehow fueled by the purchase of guns is what makes no sense to me. It certainly isn't borne out by your Mexican comparison.
Response to Straw Man (Reply #25)
applegrove This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Straw Man (Reply #25)
applegrove This message was self-deleted by its author.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)I'm using Mexico as an example of what life is like when you live in an unequal economy. You all pretend it is fine and healthy to go over every instance of self defence and spread the virus. I'm saying there is a method to your madness. If you don't know about the method perhaps you shouldn't defend propaganda of the NRA and the GOP. It is madness!
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)households and about as many Norwegian, Swiss, Canadian, and (to a lesser degree) French households have guns as we do..........
how does that work again?
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Since when is self-defense a "virus"? I thought it was an inalienable human right.
I'm not defending "propaganda of the NRA and the GOP," and I don't much care for the implication. I'm defending the assertion that there is such a thing as successful armed self-defense. I see nothing mad about it. What I see as mad is the desire of many here to pretend that it doesn't exist, blinded as they are by their zealous hatred of anything to do with firearms.
SteveW
(754 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)"and then you suddenly realize you are living in Mexico."
What I want to know, is, how long after I have this realization, will ATF start walking guns my way?
Has anyone studied this 'fantasy to shoot burgulars'?
I can see it is a fantasy if no burgular shows up and no one get shot. Then you have some deluisional guy at home waiting for a burgular.
But that is not what happened or is happening. Real burgulars break down doors and have gotten shot.
I think your buying into vast right wing conspiracy there.
applegrove
(118,845 posts)fear and fantasy in people's minds. To lure people into the cycle of being an nra-er.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...adjust the squelch on your NRAdar.
ileus
(15,396 posts)We could compare tactics and responses.
Every story (with enough detail) is worthy of discussion, lives are on the line.
E6-B
(153 posts)Seems you also have a problem with people using 1st Amendment rights too.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)> The fantasy is to shoot a burglar.
That is not a fantasy; that is a nightmare. No one in their right mind WANTS to shoot someone. That choice just ends up being the lesser of two evils. (The greater evil being that you get killed instead.)
applegrove
(118,845 posts)how people think. Propaganda denoting the superpower one has when they have a gun and use it against 'some bad guy' leads to, well, people thinking about that and imagining themselves in that situation.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)Why do the gun-ban people like to post an endless parade of "crime with a gun" stories? Well, you see, they want to demonize the use of firearms in order to further their prohibitionist agenda. And others want to counter this propaganda by pointing out the utility of firearms as tools of legitimate self-defense.
The NRA is "trying to change how people think"? How are people supposed to think? Are they supposed to think that it's better for people to become victims of violent crime than to use firearms in their own defense?
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)(which is a derogatory term, btw). The "it" people here like in these stories is not the violence, it is that the innocent people won. The good guys. I don't think anyone needs to justify to you or apologize for cheering when that happens.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)> people thinking about that and imagining themselves in that situation
This is an excellent goal to have. Not because folks want to be in that bad situation, no one does. Being prepared for the situation can help you survive it. If you are thinking about this correctly then you recognize the situation as a bad one, plan and prepare what to do if you unfortunately get forced into that situation, and until then hope that the event never occurs.
Wistful Vista
(136 posts)he or she has abdicated any rights to life or survival...I would and will kill them without the slightest tinge of compunction. You may now castigate me for my violation of your "all criminals are really victims" principles.
Callisto32
(2,997 posts)A cycle would require cycling back and starting over.
Moreover, it isn't even a process, it sounds like the State's position in:
514 U.S. 549 (1995)
UNITED STATES
v.
LOPEZ
No. 93-1260.
United States Supreme Court.
Argued November 8, 1994.
hack89
(39,171 posts)We_Have_A_Problem
(2,112 posts)Don't you know how offensive it is to ask for proof or data? How dare you think of offending someone who holds such passionate feelings about something by asking them to support their assertions? How rude!
hack89
(39,171 posts)krispos42
(49,445 posts)so to speak. Thus causing the viscous cycle.
Straw Man
(6,626 posts)If not, what are you talking about?
ileus
(15,396 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)Do you have a suggestion for self defense better than the one employed in the OP?
ileus
(15,396 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,482 posts)...but I have fond dreams of people breaking into my house back to when I was 8 or 9 years old. I probably even asked Santa for a home invader once or twice. I'm in my 50s now and I realize it'll probably never happen but, hey, I buy powerball tickets so you never know. Somebody's got to get their dream.