It either those Chicago thugs or those strict Chicago gun laws or all those shootings of black kids in Chicago.
They can never seem to decide on what point to settle on.

The shooting in Chicago are mostly gang shootings and it's over drugs or turf. It's not racial or 'stand your ground' violence.

Chicago at one time did have a handgun ban, but that was overturned by the SC0TUS a few years back.

They just like using Chicago because we do have a history and because President Obama is from Chicago.

Regarding gun-control policy, most pro-2A folks merely point out how gun prohibition (some 40yrs of it in that city) cannot be linked to decreased crime and killing. Obviously.

Of course, there is always the Bronx cheer buzzed toward Chi's corruptuon and gun-control hypocrisy of its elites. Try perusing threads about Florida!

cities like DC, Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, etc

No shit - what do you think we have been saying all along. The problem is violent criminals. Violent criminals that ignore gun control laws.

in lax gun states the gang and drug violence is matched with the actions of hidden criminals who own guns legally. Chicago doesn't seem to have this.

or are you extrapolating a few isolated incidents to highlight the "danger" of hidden criminals?

A hidden criminal to you is simply a legal gun owner, right?

LOL...not a statistics major, eh? LOL This nonsensical approach makes any of your claims laughable..

A regular Doctor of Googleship.

A Rhodekill scholar.

That's all he's got is his computer to tell him what's really going on in the world.

from actual statisticians at CDC, FBI, etc. A laugh a minute I tell ya..

and a Google search produces only one for every 100 incidents of gun misuse, yes I discount those "actual stats."

are so much more reliable than the CDC, FBI, DOJS, BATFE and the several other actual statisticians who have published their results. ROFL Don't like the obvious truth, look for a method of developing stats which is ludicrous, then claim accuracy... Sometimes the shit people try to convince themselves of is really quite bizarre...truth is stranger than fiction, and all that... LOL

I thought you were talking about "DGUs" not "incidents of gun misuse". So...if you believe that the incidents of DGUs is exaggerated by, say, the LA Times (whose historical position has always been gun prohibition). Then you must also believe that the stats for "incidents of gun misuse" are exaggerated by the same sources as the DGU numbers you are so defiant in believing, eh?

Google is an amazing tool good for many things, actual scientist/statistician replacement wouldn't be one of those things by anyone's claim but the most obtuse among us....yeah, truth and fiction...LOL

Oh, and do you really think that some guy whose home is being broken into, who answers the door with a gun and the breaker flees would make even the smallest town newspapers? Further I live in a rural area and the town newspaper doesn't even come up on Google if I am searching using a known incident and the town name...so even if it made the news (which the vast number do not) it wouldn't appear in your silly "Google-search-engine method of determining statistics".

It is a major American city, on the border with Mexico, it has more guns than people, yet has one of the lowest crime rates in America.

In other places where gun restrictions are less onerous, domestic violence by formerly lawful gun owners, work related shootings by formerly law abiding gun owners and other like incidents make up a major percentage of the gun crime

You said, "Criminology is a well studied field. It is already well established that legal gun owners rarely use their guns in an illegal manner. It is extremely rare for a legal gun owner to commit murder as a first crime. Rare does not mean "never"; it sometimes happens, but rarely so."

DGUs are rare in Chicago because the legal ownership of handguns is still essentially forbidden in Chicago. It is kind of hard to use a gun for self-defense if you don't have one.

El Paso is much safer than Chicago, and has lots and lots of guns.

I live in El Paso, despite the violence across the border in Juarez, there are very few gun crimes here.

Firearms to law abiding citizens, knowing full well that , criminals will still have guns:


Your synopsis: Chicago is a good example of gun control working as it should.

My synopsis:
Chicago is a good example of gun control working as it was intended all along.

The gang bangers and drug dealers are being shot only by their peers; they don't have to worry about some victim getting all rude and fighting back. If someone did that, well lock them up for being a danger to society. The criminal has other charges so can deal away the gun charge and be out after a short refresher course at Gangster U.

If you happen to be a politician who forgets his gun in his luggage because he was just at work (still can't figure that out. I don't keep my gun in my suit case) we can give him a stern warning.

for their own needs and could easily provide smuggled firearms to anyone who wants one if there was a market.

Prohibition rarely works. If you disagree please explain how our War on Drugs has been an outstanding success.

of domestic and workplace violence (up to and including homicide) than comparable urban populations? Those statistics would be interesting to see...

For Chicago, according to the Chicago Police Dept, murder rate is 16.0 per 100,000, Robbery rate 527.3, aggrevated assault rate 510.4

National rates, FBI: murder 4.8, robbery 119.1 aggrevated assault 252.3

Texas: murder 5.0, robbery 130.6, Aggravated assault 284.4. Texas has lots and lots of guns, shall-issue concealed carry, no AWB, and is only slightly higher than the national average. That increase is likely caused by our long border with Mexico and the problems with illegals and drug smuggling.

http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeStatebyState.cfm

He's not claiming that gun control has reduced Chicago's overall violent crime rate - that ship has clearly sailed - it seems like he's suggesting that Chicago gun control has reduced rates of a specific sub-set of homicides. Specifically, he's ignoring gang-, drug-, and other-crime-related murders, and just focusing on domestic and workplace violence, so-called crimes of passion committed by people without past records or other involvement in criminal behavior.

It sounds as though he thinks that these crimes are committed (semi-)spontaneously by people who would be likely to abide by Chicago's gun laws. Thus, if these crimes are occurring at a lower rate, it (hypothetically) must be because the city's gun control is working - some people who might have acted out violently didn't do so, because they obeyed the law and didn't have guns. It's not actually an illogical hypothesis, although I suspect it will be a factual and statistical fail (and google-science-guesswork is a complete joke, of course).

Obviously, there are a bunch of huge assumptions here: the first being that these specific crimes really are less common in Chicago, and the second being that, if the first is true, it must be because of gun laws. The second assumption can't even be dealt with until we have numbers to go with the first assumption...

He is extremely ignorant of criminology, which is a well studied field. He is subscribing to a myth of the happily married couple who never have an argument suddenly having a violent murderous one. Domestic violence murders almost always have predictors, mainly lots of violent fights in an escalating pattern. Usually the killer has already been involved with the police over violence issues and is already forbidden to have a gun.

From the FBI, via the Houston Chronicle, rates are per 100,000. Chicago is higher in all
categories save aggravated assault:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/111518996/FBI-crime-29p-c

Murder 9, Robbery 376, Aggravated assault 554

Murders in the city are approaching record highs this year.

Every Monday the Tribune gives us the "box scores" of how many shot and how many dead.

We have a higher death rate than Afghanistan, the Sun Times noted last month.

We are 38% ahead of last year in murders.

The police are now attending all gang member's funerals with locked and loaded M4 carbines since a drive by killed 2 rival gang bangers.

There have been several shooting on North Michigan Avenue, our main downtown shopping district, so the violence is not restricted to a few neighborhoods.

They just passed a $25 tax on every firearm sold in Cook County with another proposed 5 cents tax per round on ammo sold.

The city is still dragging its feet and fighting the McDonald decision, so it's almost impossible to keep a gun in your home.

Yeah, I can see why some guy living 9000 miles away would be stupid enough to think gun control is working really well here.

Perhaps Mike B and his like minded friends would like to take a field trip to Englewood, Chatham, Pilsen, or any of the other great gun free zones we have.

Thus nugget, from our fact challenged friend , in one of his earlier OP's,

This may be true as far as it goes, but it doesn't help us in our analysis.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/117289411

Inconvenient facts, can just be swept away into nothingness, if you subscribe to the gunrights restrictionist, point of view.

show us Chicago compared to New Orleans for domestic murders by formerly law abiding gun owners. I dare ya.

all domestic murders?

If you read the rest of this thread you'd have noticed that I actually took your idea seriously (albeit with a huge dose of skepticism), but I'm not going to do your research for you. If you really want to discuss this here, then provide a real foundation.

'Daring' other people to produce the info doesn't cut it; if you won't do your own homework, you've got nothing...

perfect. Coming soon to your state and city if Mikeb and his kind have their way. Thankfully they won't though so don't be too alarmed.

California? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
New York? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Maryland? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Illinois? Oh wait you say we have to ignore that....


Let's go international

South Africa? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Australia? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Mexico? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Columbia? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Russia? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?
Brazil? They have strict gun laws. No gun crime there right?