Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
What would it take to *actually prevent* every currently illegal weapons transfer that happens now (Original Post) Recursion Dec 2012 OP
If I knew the answer to that gejohnston Dec 2012 #1
cameras. lots and lots of cameras. cameras, everywhere. all the time. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #2
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #3
there will be microchips involved, too - Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #4
cell phones... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #6
drones, dude. the size of a hummingbird and smaller. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #17
Just one word for you: SPIDERS discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #21
What the hell is that from? AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #31
Minority Report discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #35
I went with my s-i-l to a farm sale in the back woods. There were a lot of guns being sold at that jwirr Dec 2012 #5
we will all be installed with antenna that will have a direct line back to the mothership Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #18
You forgot cameras, esp. Ones which put flickering rectangles around your head. Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #22
Let me ask the question in a different way Trunk Monkey Dec 2012 #7
That's what I keep coming back to (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #9
Every? quakerboy Dec 2012 #8
It sure as hell hasn't done it for marijuana Recursion Dec 2012 #10
You can quakerboy Dec 2012 #13
Can you get a 3-D printer into a basement next to the ganja? Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #23
Can you shoot a gun in your basement without anyone taking notice? quakerboy Dec 2012 #24
Agreed. No matter how malignant, where there's a will...nc Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #25
So Do Nothing? fightthegoodfightnow Dec 2012 #29
Not true as you well know. Check my posts re school security.nc Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #38
Not agreed. You are twisting what I have said quakerboy Dec 2012 #37
"Every" cannot be done. It is a matter of resources. ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #11
OK, "most" Recursion Dec 2012 #12
I'll take a shot at answering that. (No pun intended.) spin Dec 2012 #14
Same answer: Enforcement of the law. ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #15
Interesting perspective. n/t Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #26
Thats the wrong question to ask, and it always has been. beevul Dec 2012 #16
Diagnosing and treating our Mentally Ill...Removing the stigma of depression. Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #19
You can't prevent them all. DanTex Dec 2012 #20
Being required to account for your legally purchased gun periodically? (nt) ehrenfeucht games Dec 2012 #27
worked out really well with the drug war No Compromise Dec 2012 #28
Registration. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #30
I'm coming around to universal registration being the only idea I think would do any good Recursion Dec 2012 #32
Hope springs eternal. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #33
That could be a good give and take Recursion Dec 2012 #34
I like your idea. n/t Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #36

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
1. If I knew the answer to that
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:19 PM
Dec 2012

I would be selling my services to every government and law enforcement agency in the world.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
5. I went with my s-i-l to a farm sale in the back woods. There were a lot of guns being sold at that
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:44 PM
Dec 2012

sale. It would be hard to put cameras in sales like that.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
18. we will all be installed with antenna that will have a direct line back to the mothership
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:37 AM
Dec 2012

otherwise known as The Pentagon . . .

 

Trunk Monkey

(950 posts)
7. Let me ask the question in a different way
Sat Dec 15, 2012, 11:58 PM
Dec 2012

What would it take to *actually prevent* every currently illegal marijuana transaction that happens now

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
8. Every?
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:00 AM
Dec 2012

Barring the advent of reliable mass produceable mind control, that's not happening. Kind of like trying to make sure every single kid brushes their teeth every single night, or that every single person obeys every traffic law.

I would imagine that a significant reduction might be a bit more possible. Wonder what would happen if every asset currently involved in enforcing the law in regards to marijuana, protest suppression, and harassing the homeless were diverted to enforcing gun law. Might just do it, eh?

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
13. You can
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:48 AM
Dec 2012

grow and use Marijuana in your basement without detection quite easily. Doubt many people are able or willing to put in the kind of work needed to do that in secret with guns. In addition marijuana has a fairly legitimate daily use, as well as its purely recreational purposes. Given the effort levels involved, I suspect that your average generally law abiding citizen is far more motivated to break drug law than gun law. So yeah, its not quite the same.

In addition, I would submit that one main reason reason you can have so many questionable gun sales now is that its so easy to hide the illicit transactions among the many legal ones. Bring that a little more in line with a reasonable level. Simplify and tighten up the laws, and it all gets a lot easier.

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
23. Can you get a 3-D printer into a basement next to the ganja?
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 12:11 PM
Dec 2012

Most here are in favor of universal NICS testing, but the interstate commerce clause prevents federal action to require all buyers use it. The feds can, however, open the system by changing the law to expand beyond FFLs. This would give the states the option to require ALL purchases go through NICS. Would it stop off-the-books transfers? Not by a long shot.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
24. Can you shoot a gun in your basement without anyone taking notice?
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:49 AM
Dec 2012

Making a rudamentary gun is not hard. Making one that appeals is a bit more challenging. And I doubt that many people can afford a private 3-d printer. Or, since to the best of my knowledge, they dont do metal with those, a CnC machine is also not cheap. And then you have to care enough to learn to use one. Not that hard, but again, considerably more effort than growing a plant. You can do that with a lamp. A lamp, a box and some mylar, maybe with a fan if you get fancy.

Then there is making an area safe to use with a gun, As you probably dont care to shoot holes in your own walls. And making it soundproof. Both of which are slightly more difficult than smoking weed undetected.

fightthegoodfightnow

(7,042 posts)
29. So Do Nothing?
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:13 PM
Dec 2012

Well, thanks for being honest.

Hope your allies take that position.

They'll lose. America is sick of this sh*t.

quakerboy

(13,920 posts)
37. Not agreed. You are twisting what I have said
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 09:33 PM
Dec 2012

You totally missed the point. If guns were treated like pot, they would become far more rare. People can make guns in a home shop. So what. They can also make a car bomb. How many of those do we have running around? Its not convenient. Nor would guns be. If its a pita to make, and even more of a pita to use, nor any chemical addiction factor, its going to become less common than it otherwise would be.

Fact is that while gun control laws passed today will not immediately end guns or gun crime, it will make a difference. It probably wont stop the next shooting. It probably will prevent shootings when my (hypothetical) kids send their first children to school. Change has to start somewhere. And making it less convenient is probably enough to make a bigger difference than anything else, on the weapons side of things.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
11. "Every" cannot be done. It is a matter of resources.
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:01 AM
Dec 2012

However, if you want folks to fear the consequences of breaking the law, the law needs to be enforced.

Straw purchases are illegal. Many folks do it. They know that the chances of getting caught are low and that the chances of being prosecuted for it are even lower.

Ditto for illegal sales.

spin

(17,493 posts)
14. I'll take a shot at answering that. (No pun intended.)
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 01:57 AM
Dec 2012

First I believe we need to set up a system that requires and allows any citizen selling a firearm to find out if the buyer can pass the NICS background check. This could best be accomplished by having both the seller and the buyer visit a gun store where the background check would be run for a very reasonable fee. (This idea would do far more than closing the "gun show loophole."

Second we need to impose far more strict penalties for anyone who straw purchases a firearm. I prefer a draconian approach and would consider anyone who straw purchased a firearm as an accessory to any crime committed with it. Of course this idea will never become law.

ManiacJoe

(10,136 posts)
15. Same answer: Enforcement of the law.
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:06 AM
Dec 2012

The current offenders do not fear the law because it is not enforced on a frequent and regular basis. In the few cases where it does get enforced, it often is the first thing traded away in the plea bargain. Both of these things need to change.

There are technical things that could be enacted to help the investigators do their job more quickly, but none of those are needed to actually do the enforcement now.

 

beevul

(12,194 posts)
16. Thats the wrong question to ask, and it always has been.
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 07:10 AM
Dec 2012

The right question to ask is:

How do we prevent those that get guns and shouldn't have them, from doing all or most or even some, of the damage that they might do with them if they get them?

Of course, nobody seems the least interested in having that conversation.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
19. Diagnosing and treating our Mentally Ill...Removing the stigma of depression.
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:39 AM
Dec 2012

Universal Health Care.

Jobs.

Education.

These are steps toward eradicating the ills of society that are being manifested by the most "sick" of us.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
20. You can't prevent them all.
Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:41 AM
Dec 2012

Licensing and registration would go a long way. What if, just to own a gun, you had to go through a licensing procedure similar to getting a conceal-carry license?

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
30. Registration.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:26 PM
Dec 2012

Wouldn't prevent it, but it would allow us to follow up on, and stomp people who transferred guns knowingly to ineligible recipients.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
32. I'm coming around to universal registration being the only idea I think would do any good
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:30 PM
Dec 2012

I hope we focus on that rather than distracting ourselves with another useless AWB fight

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
33. Hope springs eternal.
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:36 PM
Dec 2012

Simplest solution: Remove the Hughes Amendment, and extend the NFA registry downward to include semi-autos with detachable mags.

No other statutes need to be touched. Maybe revisit the cost of the tax stamp.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
34. That could be a good give and take
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 03:43 PM
Dec 2012

Especially if the tax stamp for a semi-automatic is lower than for a machine gun. Expect a few dozen million people to suddenly become FFLs...

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»What would it take to *ac...