Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumWhat would it take to *actually prevent* every currently illegal weapons transfer that happens now
Just as a ballpark, what would that take? Do we know?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)I would be selling my services to every government and law enforcement agency in the world.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)honestly, how else can it all be tracked? I don't know.
discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)...cameras, satellites, UAVs, black helicopters, maybe even some honest-to-god men-in-black.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)discntnt_irny_srcsm
(18,479 posts)You should recognize Tom Cruise.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)sale. It would be hard to put cameras in sales like that.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)otherwise known as The Pentagon . . .
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Trunk Monkey
(950 posts)What would it take to *actually prevent* every currently illegal marijuana transaction that happens now
Recursion
(56,582 posts)quakerboy
(13,920 posts)Barring the advent of reliable mass produceable mind control, that's not happening. Kind of like trying to make sure every single kid brushes their teeth every single night, or that every single person obeys every traffic law.
I would imagine that a significant reduction might be a bit more possible. Wonder what would happen if every asset currently involved in enforcing the law in regards to marijuana, protest suppression, and harassing the homeless were diverted to enforcing gun law. Might just do it, eh?
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Would it be better at it for guns?
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)grow and use Marijuana in your basement without detection quite easily. Doubt many people are able or willing to put in the kind of work needed to do that in secret with guns. In addition marijuana has a fairly legitimate daily use, as well as its purely recreational purposes. Given the effort levels involved, I suspect that your average generally law abiding citizen is far more motivated to break drug law than gun law. So yeah, its not quite the same.
In addition, I would submit that one main reason reason you can have so many questionable gun sales now is that its so easy to hide the illicit transactions among the many legal ones. Bring that a little more in line with a reasonable level. Simplify and tighten up the laws, and it all gets a lot easier.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)Most here are in favor of universal NICS testing, but the interstate commerce clause prevents federal action to require all buyers use it. The feds can, however, open the system by changing the law to expand beyond FFLs. This would give the states the option to require ALL purchases go through NICS. Would it stop off-the-books transfers? Not by a long shot.
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)Making a rudamentary gun is not hard. Making one that appeals is a bit more challenging. And I doubt that many people can afford a private 3-d printer. Or, since to the best of my knowledge, they dont do metal with those, a CnC machine is also not cheap. And then you have to care enough to learn to use one. Not that hard, but again, considerably more effort than growing a plant. You can do that with a lamp. A lamp, a box and some mylar, maybe with a fan if you get fancy.
Then there is making an area safe to use with a gun, As you probably dont care to shoot holes in your own walls. And making it soundproof. Both of which are slightly more difficult than smoking weed undetected.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)fightthegoodfightnow
(7,042 posts)Well, thanks for being honest.
Hope your allies take that position.
They'll lose. America is sick of this sh*t.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)quakerboy
(13,920 posts)You totally missed the point. If guns were treated like pot, they would become far more rare. People can make guns in a home shop. So what. They can also make a car bomb. How many of those do we have running around? Its not convenient. Nor would guns be. If its a pita to make, and even more of a pita to use, nor any chemical addiction factor, its going to become less common than it otherwise would be.
Fact is that while gun control laws passed today will not immediately end guns or gun crime, it will make a difference. It probably wont stop the next shooting. It probably will prevent shootings when my (hypothetical) kids send their first children to school. Change has to start somewhere. And making it less convenient is probably enough to make a bigger difference than anything else, on the weapons side of things.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)However, if you want folks to fear the consequences of breaking the law, the law needs to be enforced.
Straw purchases are illegal. Many folks do it. They know that the chances of getting caught are low and that the chances of being prosecuted for it are even lower.
Ditto for illegal sales.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)What would it take to stop, say, 75% of straw purchases?
spin
(17,493 posts)First I believe we need to set up a system that requires and allows any citizen selling a firearm to find out if the buyer can pass the NICS background check. This could best be accomplished by having both the seller and the buyer visit a gun store where the background check would be run for a very reasonable fee. (This idea would do far more than closing the "gun show loophole."
Second we need to impose far more strict penalties for anyone who straw purchases a firearm. I prefer a draconian approach and would consider anyone who straw purchased a firearm as an accessory to any crime committed with it. Of course this idea will never become law.
ManiacJoe
(10,136 posts)The current offenders do not fear the law because it is not enforced on a frequent and regular basis. In the few cases where it does get enforced, it often is the first thing traded away in the plea bargain. Both of these things need to change.
There are technical things that could be enacted to help the investigators do their job more quickly, but none of those are needed to actually do the enforcement now.
Democracyinkind
(4,015 posts)beevul
(12,194 posts)The right question to ask is:
How do we prevent those that get guns and shouldn't have them, from doing all or most or even some, of the damage that they might do with them if they get them?
Of course, nobody seems the least interested in having that conversation.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Universal Health Care.
Jobs.
Education.
These are steps toward eradicating the ills of society that are being manifested by the most "sick" of us.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Licensing and registration would go a long way. What if, just to own a gun, you had to go through a licensing procedure similar to getting a conceal-carry license?
ehrenfeucht games
(139 posts)No Compromise
(373 posts)are you planning on disbanding the CIA?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Wouldn't prevent it, but it would allow us to follow up on, and stomp people who transferred guns knowingly to ineligible recipients.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I hope we focus on that rather than distracting ourselves with another useless AWB fight
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Simplest solution: Remove the Hughes Amendment, and extend the NFA registry downward to include semi-autos with detachable mags.
No other statutes need to be touched. Maybe revisit the cost of the tax stamp.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Especially if the tax stamp for a semi-automatic is lower than for a machine gun. Expect a few dozen million people to suddenly become FFLs...