Many a troll over the years has used overthetop 'enthusiasm' and hyperbole to describe Dems or Dem issues, in order to gain acceptance.

Most Democrats, including those here would never describe Hillary as a liberal - they would see her as she sees herself - left of center. It's generally been only GOP and their activists who would view her as liberal and describe her that way publicly.

as well as sexism and rape. It makes some people uncomfortable. Interesting that people who claim to oppose power are so resistant to discussions that actually challenge it. Complain about a politician or two, but you can't make white people or men feel uncomfortable. Free speech is okay, as long as it's speech that doesn't challenge patriarchy or white privilege.

Dial it down, NoJustice. Remember to stay in your place.

it came off as overthetop since even she would not call herself that….at all.

Try accuracy BB… you might like the fit if you tried it.

So no free speech at all. Join in with the group think. No independent thought allowed. Since the OP talked about racism, and we are in the African American group, I somehow thought your post would relate on some level to that issue. But I see it's just telling her this isn't the place to promote a Democratic candidate because you don't like it. Got it.

You don't think Clinton is a liberal, so the OP isn't allowed to disagree. She needs to defer to her betters. That you feel entitled to come into the African American group and tell her what she is allowed to say is pretty incredible.

I was giving an example of how the enthusiasm for HRC could be seen by some as suspect since past trolls over the years have come here and tried to throw the site off by being effusive.

I was giving an honest reply to what I perceive to be NJNP's earnest quest for an answer.

If you'd prefer a dishonest exchange from me, forget it. It won't happen - I don't do BS.

Yes, people here have a habit of calling people trolls who don't conform to group think. I have been called a troll more often than I can count for posting about feminism. The same goes for African American members of this group who post about racism and white privilege. Anyone who fails to conform to the views and interests of majority on this site runs the risk of being labeled a troll. You offered advice that might indeed spare her jury hides. Conformity is always popular. That doesn't make it right.

That you call me dishonest and describe references to Clinton as a liberal as akin to trolling indicates that you have no awareness of the extent to which your conception of truth is indistinguishable from your own opinions. There is no logical scenario in which support for a potential Democratic candidate, and calling her a liberal (as most Americans would), is a sign of trolling on a site in which TOS requires support for Democrats. It would be trolling on Free Republic or Red State, but not here.

Trolls can take many forms, but the most pernicious are ratfuckers. They are Republicans posing as leftists and work to ensure a GOP victory by riling up antagonism against the Democratic party and its likely nominees. BBI was one such troll, and was extremely popular among some here. More like him have appeared. They play on resentment against the Democratic Party and take advantage of the fact too many people here share the right's rage toward Clinton and before her Obama. They tell people voting makes no difference, all to promote the electoral prospects of the GOP. That is who she is talking about as right wingers. Their fans are the people you suggest the OP accommodate by refraining from calling Clinton a liberal.

We all differ in how we see liberalism and leftism. I see people claim to be the real left who advance any number of right-wing views, from anti-feminism to the race-baiting comments the OP discusses, to promoting the gun lobby or Rand Paul. You see it differently. None of us has a monopoly on truth, yet some don't seem to realize that.

Rather than calling me dishonest, I suggest you give some thought to your notion of what constitutes acceptable thought vs. trolling on this site.

Misperception is driving your posting at this point.

I replied to NJNP's earnest post, I hope it's earnest, with an earnest answer of what I thought could be driving some of the backlash he's been getting.

I was clearly saying to you that if you EXPECT a dishonest reply from someone like me that it wasn't going to happen - I called it straight as to what could possibly be behind the backlash from some here.

Apparently, you don't know what I see, because you have certainly not been comprehensive or clearheaded about what I posted.

but, I've watched Democrats and Dem candidates over the last 40 years go through stages where they wouldn't even say they were a Democrat - they'd say they were an Independent Democrat, or a conservative Democrat, sometimes a 'bleeding-heart liberal'. Many label themselves. I guess some of us become accustomed to calling them as they see themselves.

I worked a local campaign in 2013 that became uncomfortable for me when the older female candidate would call herself a conservative Democrat in front of certain crowds.

But, overall, you're right about certain self-perceptions.

and why I'll vote for her over whatever horror the Republicans put forth.

However, her economic and foreign policy are both far right of center and decidedly not liberal.

Therein lies the confusion. Some people want her to be all one thing or all the other. Nuance makes their brains hurt and complexity irritates them.

From her Senatorial votes and her statements on the issues, she is no where near "far right" ... she is an economic and foreign policy centrist.

Just because you consider yourself a liberal and disagree with some of her positions, doesn't make her far right.

Yes 30. They can come to DU to disrupt, armed with their GOP Hillary Hate speak & stupid accusations, BUT they will NOT EVER be seen on the same DU screen I see.

Here, my link & post. Makes DU a fine place to do what it has always been intended for.

Get the trash out and I promise you will never miss a thing they have to say.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6360234

post:
I now have about 30 of them on IGNORE.
Yes 30.
Fine with me. They offer nothing constructive to DU so I won't waste my time with them.
They are welcome to gather in their group of disrupters & talk to themselves.
Have at it.
I won't be reading anymore of their pointless useless Freeper Page libelous comments.

My DU is great today. Much like the way it should be.
Glad I got rid of all of them.
They have Nothing.

Here is a sad reality.

Were I to put on ignore all the racists, misogynists, gay haters and Hillary haters, I would have very little to do here.

And to be honest, I enjoy mixing it up with them, I am used to them, I fight with them at other boards where they dont pretend to be liberals.

DU has one major flaw, the jury system.

If they had moderators determine which posts are hidden and the mods had to all be liberals, then I could say what I REALLY think about these people.

Because NO liberal message board would ever silence a liberal for exposing rightwingers.

On Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:41 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Ignore, can you only do that if you are a paid member?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=13030

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Now he's trolling the AA group, trying to be as divisive as possible. He's calling most of DU right wingers. He has a bunch of shit stirring threads in GD where he's getting his ass handed to him for this crap.
He is intentionally being disruptive.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:48 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: If you're confusing DU with Discussionist, don't. If you really did mean DU, then the broad brush you're slinging deserves a hide. This whole thread does.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I mostly agree with the post and though it's troubling, troubling does not equal offensive.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think this poster is doing some kind of LoZo-style performance art (or trolling, in the fishing sense), but I don't find this post hideworthy even if it's divisive, paranoid, manipulative, and authoritarian to boot.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Oh my god!

NoPeace posts back here all the time! If he was trolling - myself or any other African American Group Host would have booted.

Please I hope whomever alerted on that - reach out to one of us if something is not a TOS violation.

You have to be beyond the pale to get knocked out of here.


And this might be one of the few safe havens at DU where the OP can be posted!

People are claiming they think he's a troll and they're trying to get him booted by getting him some hides.

I would bet everything in my pocket right now that the person who alerted is not a regular participant in this group.

That was my thought too.

One more off topic word and I'm blocking him.

On Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:42 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Like arcane1 below?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=13053

REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Total callout of another poster on DU. I get that this is a "group" but this kind of post is OTT even here. Please vote to hide this unfair callout.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:53 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter seems a little over-sensitive to me.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not a call out. Pointing out that this particular poster isn't a regular in this group. I give groups a little more leeway because they are safe havens and their members have a right to try and keep it to their liking. I'm leaving this, it wouldn't be hide worthy for GD it's certainly not for this group.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Since I'm kinda confused about who "him" is in the cited post it's hard to term it a call-out to a particular user.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is a personal attack. You cannot accuse other DUers of "trolling". This whole thread is full of such attacks, but that doesn't mean you should just pile on with more.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is in a safe haven group. People are allowed anywhere on DU to announce their intentions to block someone and hosts may step in to speak either about or, to a poster that is making disruptive/disrespectful comments. This is part of the process. This is what transparency on DU3 looks like. The sausage is delicious however, you may not like watching the process of making it.

Im convinced someone needs a time out now.

Thanks you!

How many group hosts will show that kind of honesty?

HOF and HRC groups are the ones I learned it from.

two other highly targeted groups/safe havens.

Kudos to The Hosts in all those Groups. Very tough job that the Hosts handle amazingly well with tact, diplomacy, courage and kindess under (sometimes very) adverse conditions.

I strive to be as good a DUer as the hosts of these groups.

arcane1 came in and disrupted this group.

If you were literate - and took the time to read the entire thread - you would see another Group Host and me - a Group Host -are being very tolerant and open on this thread.

Transparent.

Now stop being a spiteful little trouble maker - and go play in GD.

Fairly when you have all had enough.
Appreciated & thanks

No you do not need to be a paying member. Just log in and hit ignore key listed above the disrupter's post or tap the disrupter's name & it will give you a choice..tap Full Ignore, & they are gone.
Best thing to do.
You can select one or many names for your Ignore list.
You can also go back & deselect the name if you so choose.
Go to your account & tap ignore to view your selections.
Maybe just start with the worst disrupters first. Add more as you like.
Good Luck. Worth a try.

..which is why I would sooner just IGNORE posters who consistently bait for the sake of reaction.
If its the same posters over & over then I just have no more to say to them.
They aren't after discussion they just want to drag someone into an endless pissing match.
Am over that.

or "race baiting" or "playing the race card" is just plain racist. "Race baiting" means daring to discuss race and racism.

Their minds can't form reasoned arguments when talking about issues of race….….or much else, for that matter.

The Secret Service one - I kept quiet on because you don't want me to gin up fury in the Anti NSA crowd. I've my own take on what some of the pushback is you received there. So in interest of keeping the thread on topic - I bowed out. Regardless - it was NOT race baiting.

"On Topic" - I just don't remember this inept keystone cops shit during any other administration. I just don't. So maybe there are people with deep resentment at their very insulated worlds changing in a way they never expected? I do know I work with a woman whose husband is SS and who is addicted to Fox news - so that's one right there.

Hillary Clinton - that's just the nature of the beast. She may be qualified - she might even be the most qualified. But people are going to have different reasons for voting than that.

Example - Liberal Stalwart on the Ms. Clinton thread made pretty clear she's not too pleased at the idea of a Clinton 'sweep'. I'm not either. But my 'picks' early on aren't even (kind of quite literally) on the boards at DU. Now I'm a member of the HRC group - but that's because Candidate or not - she was an excellent first lady, I actively supported her in her Senate race (lived in WNY at the time), and I thought she did an stellar job as Secretary of State.

So I guess my point - sometimes people who are neutral or who know they will send a thread into a tailspin with their comments will keep quiet. I'm one of them. I know - hard to believe. But there are a lot of threads at DU that I see the topic/title or read a few paragraphs and move on. I'm not going to help!

I learned a long time ago from a very wise AfAm gay woman, that in America AfAm are not allowed to call racists, racists.

I see that now.

So I do it, and I do it every single chance I get including cutting out friends I have known since i was 5 yrs old.

I am not fucking around, which is why this jury system is so bad. I need to be calling them racists to their faces, or misogynists or liars when they claim to be liberal but wont support Hillary

This is WHY we have the problem we have

This is WHY We can have 47 fucking senators commit treason and nothing happens to them

We MUST call them out, we MUST call them what they are...but we cant do that here, too bad

That was a bullshit thing for that poster to say to you.

I haven't been hidden yet, but it's one of those "you take your chances" things. Some people thinking any suggestion that anyone has done anything racist is worse than actually doing or saying somethign racist.

I see more rightwing shibboleths, syllogisms, talking points and dog whistles here on DU than anywhere else I frequent online.

It's astonishing. And I'm white, so you might think I would no longer be capable of astonishment at the things white folks say when race comes up, especially when it's "just us" around.

I used to think so, too, that I'd heard it all.

Then Pres. Obama got elected.

that was cuts and pastes to actual DUer comments that survived for more than a day. And DU was all ... for about a week. Then it was back to the DU default: "Well ... that really wasn't THAT racist/sexist!"

so ...

And yeah, now we're back to the same shit.

Same posters typing racist shit, same posters calling it out, same posters saying it isn't racist. Ain't nothing changed.

...they try to poison everything they touch, everywhere they go.

Why do they do it? What do they want?

I don't think they really want anything in particular, anymore. They just want everyone to be as miserable and dead inside as they are.

It's poison.

Is a concern troll.

There is nothing wrong with the OP.

It is absolutely relevant to this group.

Signed,
A Group host



Ps - Please proceed Mr NoJustice

white people, or some white people, very uncomfortable.

Misogyny and homophobia as well.

On those last two you dont have to be white to qualify, sadly.

I just find it remarkable that there is so little acceptance on DU about the reality of racism and the others.

So little acceptance of Hillary if she is the nominee, i mean MY GOD this is the place you go to get support from other liberals and supporters.

I thought, anyway.

I know I am out of line once in a while talking so negatively about DU but it is because I want the owner to realize what is going on.

That if you want this many anti Democratic party people here, this many racists, then so be it, but for GOD's sake get rid of a system where if 4 of them are on a particular jury, it is the HILLARY SUPPORTER that is silenced, or it is the LIBERAL TELLING TRUTH ABOUT RACISM being silenced, that is insane!!!

But be aware they have deliberately and maliciously gotten hides on group hosts that said nothing offensive or that broke TOS.

It's the pure malice of bigots sniveling and hiding in plain sight at DU.

It gets old quick.

Been here all of 5 months and it's one lecture after another about how much DU sucks and how terrible DUers are.

GTFO if it's so terrible here. At least that would spare us another one of your phony "lectures"

This place is getting infested with "concern"

If you don't - you will knock it off.

There are all kinds of other threads in this Protected Group. Find one of those.

They can call me a right-winger, right here on DU, and I can't respond?

You came back, took offense -

At something that had nothing to do with you. You have GD!

Are you a member of the Progressive Group?

Should I go over there bd get offended about some post that's got nothing to do with me?

Make trouble?

I'll be right back . . .

Nice try though

But by all means, keep "explaining."

I'm done with this thread

especially when someone dares to post something positive about Democrats. Not that we needed an illustration, but it was ever so kind of you to provide one anyway.

But if in the process you've decided not to post in this thread or in this group anymore, that's just an added bonus. Thanks for that, and I mean that in all seriousness.

Right now I'm guessing in some other thread he called NJNP a race baiter?

Anyways - at least he's seeing that the Group Hosts back here are pretty transparent and honest.

Me?

I'm not going to sucker punch someone like the the peron who alert trolled the OP did.

And all of his alerts in this thread just make it painfully obvious that he's not here for genuine conversation.

One of the things I love so much about this forum is that we don't block anyone unless they come in here with some really wild, out of the blue, racist shit or if they have a well documented rep for acting that way on the rest of the boards. I hope we can keep it that way but I'm all for the discussion.

Due to a thinking process I will NEVER understand, group hosts aren't allowed in the Hosts forum anymore, so we have no choice but to have these discussions in the threads. Makes for more transparency as well as alert stalking at the same time.

I'm giving him a time out for a week.

Neither is the fact that they gleefully exploit the Alert system against real progressives, and we cannot call out an obvious mole.

However, I thought your claim of racism in the Secret Service was a pretty big stretch. Not alertable...

at the situation and her inability to say out loud what I typed on the OP

Unprecedented problems all of a sudden when a black family is in the wh...what a coinkeydink

Either racism exists everywhere in America, or it doesnt

and it does including SS, are all of them racist? probably not, maybe not even most, but there is an attitude that is different and it cant be a coincidence

Just like the first black SS agent wrote about rampant racism after he retired, a current SS agent will write about how bad it was under Obama...no doubt about it, we just have to wait

rightwingers, is absurd on a board like this.

Think of the fun -- hiding in plain sight, showing off for friends, public discussions with the like-minded on a forum dedicated to this discussion board, and private conversations hidden from view.

yippee skippee

MY HAIR!!
Should I cut my hair really short, kinda short, or grow it out more?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

Let me know what you think.

I like it that length. Angle it toward the front!

Put in some layers or just cut it off. I hate hair. I'll tell her i want an angle.
I'm 34 now. Time to look like a grown up.

Beautiful picture, by the way

I feel so lazy I thought if I cut my hair it would save me time abd let me sleep more. Then I realized I have no job so I don't need to get up. Still finishing up my web dev course. Love it!! I think I'm going to build the web. Excited.

Which is what I do - when you wear it natural curls up like and angled bob. Have her out a few layers on your crown!

I'm going to look at a few styles and think about some color while I'm at it. It's almost spring.

My chin is doubling. Lol!
I love you too.

Keeps you warm in sub-arctic winds.

I have always thought that burkas would work well for me up here. So cold. Need a walk around blanket.

You look great, BTW.

I wondered if I should cut it now that I'm getting older. Maybe it can wait.

and once it got long enough it actually got easier to deal with, since I can just put it up. My hair is extremely thick, coarse Irish hair.

I think it looks good. I had a friend from Ireland who had to come to my house and get my mom to hot comb her hair. It was just so kinky it was just like my sisters. I used to always ask her if she was sure she wasn't black.

This was my body type in my teens, twenties and thirties, yet I always felt fat and too short. I wanted to see muscles moving under skin. I wonder at times if it's the reptilian part of us that sees dinner?



I hate being short. And that body was achieved with vigorous exercise. I see many adult women now who are so thin that they exceed anything I was able to achieve on a regular diet in the past, even with working out for several hours a day and making sure to balance weight training and the kind of flexibililty training for lean muscle mass.

They are mostly raw food vegans, or else are set that way from years of eating a and detoxing. I don't know if you have anyone in your area into that to interact with there or the variety of foodstuffs we have in the lower 48. If you are like these women, that's not fat. Not what some would call athletic, I think this is normal:



If you look like either of these ladies, you are sexy as all get out:





I'm a firm believer that physical activity is key to feeling great and having a sense of body confidence. At that point a person doesn't care what others think, and I'm not saying you do, but it's a little thought that pops up.

I don't know if living in Alaska is keeping you indoors. I've also been amazed at how hard women are about their own bodies and hair, and that definitely includes me. I was brought up with the idea that you can't be too tall or skinny and that men find that sexy. Yes, I was brainwashed. Also my hair fizzy and I hated it too.

In my case, being athletic seemed to garner more attention than I wanted, as I did it to please myself. I kept myself well covered up to discourage the flirtations of others.

But many men don't care as much about body types as we think. It's usually said by women that they look for personality in a man. I find that men with any smarts are looking for the same thing in women.

And your smile is the most energetic and joyful I've seen posted on DU. Your spirit shines through. You have an awesome sense of humor in that full smile you make in pics.

I have aoways been pretty muscular, so i look weird when I get fat. It is the cold that keeps me inside, i just cannot go out there in 20 below. Maybe I should use my eliptical? Meh. I always get out more in the summer, and I think it may be time to join a dance class again. It's hard cause I aoways wanna be the teacher or just hate the style and talk shit. I have to chill. I could stand to lose 30 now.
I keep saying I'm just going to bang it all out in one month, but then I get to cooking and it goes out the window. Cannot wait for summer. Luckily, Fat for me is just kinda chubby for sone folks. I am thankful that I just cannot go much over 160. Once I get to size 11 (still wear juniors for some reason), I get scared and just stop with all the cakes for a while. That always helps alot. I love cake. I should have married a pastry chef.

That's the first thing that popped into my head. I wouldn't change a thing.

It's just been the same since like high school. So boring. I have changed it a few times but I always end up right back with the same old style.

Im glad you didn't do "best decision" and put the Loving and Roe cases there. One probably gave me life and one saved it. That would be a hard choice.

I appreciated your intentionally leaving out Bush v Gore and CU...

some got it, some didnt

Do you remember the poster named Redqueen ? If not, she was very much anti-sexism/pro-feminism. Perhaps the most vocal of all the feminists at DU. She was convinced she was correct, and said so. Many backed her up. Some didn't agree with her. AFAIK, she ultimately left DU. Who knows, maybe she still posts here under an alt account and/or lurks.

My point is, for a long time she was the "tip of the spear" here at DU for feminism-related issues. When you're the tip of the spear, you get devoted backers and staunch opponents. It's really your choice how you wish to express yourself. I would never in a billion years advise you to change your style. Just understand what you're getting yourself into.

coming from a friendly place, Steve

and attacked, a black person cant do what I do here, and they are too smart to even try.

Her presence is really missed.