that said that he grew up in Brooklyn so therefore he's a friend to African Americans. As if growing up in the highly segregated Brooklyn of the 50s and 60s would mean anything. I guess Archie Bunker would be a good candidate if he were a real person too. I grew up in a diverse desegregated school district and my God if there aren't some horribly racist people who went to my high school. Even growing up someplace desegregated doesn't prove anything.

I have been a Sanders fan, but I have to say that I'm concerned by what I'm seeing here at DU. Many of the most vocal Sanders supporters are the very same people who dismiss cases of racism, sexism, and homophobia routinely, or even as sport. But the Clinton supporters by and large are the people who have these issues on their radar. THere seems to be a real trend. It gives me pause.

support in the black community was proof of people "voting against their best interests." Wow. And when told how smug and needlessly superior s/he sounded, just brushed it off as usual.

But your point about Sanders growing up in segregated America is well made. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If he did grow up in segregated Brooklyn but still marched in support of black civil rights, that is really genuinely awesome and he deserves alot of praise for that. But what's he done in the last 50 years that deserves praise?

Many of the most vocal Sanders supporters are the very same people who dismiss cases of racism, sexism, and homophobia routinely, or even as sport. But the Clinton supporters by and large are the people who have these issues on their radar. THere seems to be a real trend. It gives me pause.

It actually doesn't surprise me that much. The level of political understanding and sophistication on DU is so tiny that it doesn't surprise me in the least that so many of the loudest, most clueless people here are screaming in praise of a 70 year old socialist who's not even a Democrat. And you can bet much of that praise is because -- even though they'd deny this until the cows come home -- they know deep down he would never win and thus, never have the chance to govern. Which means he'll never get the chance to "disappoint" them because he'll never have to actually do anything.

I think every group, whether supporters of Hillary, Bernie, the president, etc, attract a small group of people who are incredibly vocal but relatively small in number. The vocal minority sometimes gives everyone else a bad name.

You are one of a (dwindling) handful of people here whose posts I read knowing that this is someone who knows what they're talking about and I'm about to learn something.

What did you think when you saw CaliDem's thread?

With a capital T and that rhymes with D and that stands for .... disruptors!!!

I gotta say, some of the people who are touting themselves as enthusiastic Sanders supporters are coming off like assholes. Total, complete, nasty-ass ASSHOLES. Racialicious, rude, prevaricating, bullshitting assholes. "Duuuuuh, I am going to vote for Clinton because I recognize her NAME" was particularly rich. Because, I guess, only "some people" are "smart" and consider things like "the issues," or "experience" or other factors when choosing a candidate.

Not all of 'em are disruptors, of course, some are simply Useful Tools, egged on by the disruptors, given "high fives" and "plus ones" and other expressions of approval--but the ones that are playing very specific games, saying things that Senator Sanders wouldn't ever say on his worst day after dropping a sledgehammer on his bunion-toe, those people have an agenda. The agenda is not to elect Bernie Sanders to anything. It's also not the DU agenda to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to public office.

It's obvious these specific disruptors don't care about "Bernie!" despite their rainbow colored sig lines--otherwise they wouldn't make asses of themselves and represent him as a "leader" of a bunch of crude, hate-filled "supporters" who can so easily shop falsehoods and express characterizations about people that can only be regarded as ... intolerant.

There's nothing wrong with Senator Sanders--he's a nice guy. He's sincere, he's well meaning, he is plain spoken. You get what you see with him, make no mistake. He's not the bad guy in all this, though he's getting splashed with some of the sewage put out by those who are pretending/claiming to help him.

Some of the people holding themselves out to be his supporters, here, though--they aren't emulating any of his traits. But they are working real hard to try to divide Democrats ahead of a general election.

I'm gonna laugh at them, and point 'em out when it gets too deep. I'm not going to take them seriously, though--because that's what they want. They'll have to try to fish in some other pond~I ain't biting!

I knew you'd straight shoot and give me the skinny!

There's nothing wrong with Senator Sanders--he's a nice guy. He's sincere, he's well meaning, he is plain spoken. You get what you see with him, make no mistake. He's not the bad guy in all this, though he's getting splashed with some of the sewage put out by those who are pretending/claiming to help him.

I feel exactly the same. He's not the bad guy. He seems to be a pretty straightforward, if remarkably UNremarkable long term senator. I'm not aware of everything he's said or done but what I am aware of, I've not disagreed with at all. So it truly baffles and befuddles me that such are remarkably UNremarkable man who seems to be a pretty decent, straight shooting guy has such hyper, unhinged and "devoted" "supporters" who are tearing down every other Dem candidate in order to hype him up.

What exactly is it about him that makes his fans carry on so much? Someone, I think it was frazzled, posted his achievements in another thread a while back. I kid you not, so far the most remarkable actual ACHIEVEMENT -- not what he's GOING to do, what he's actually DONE -- from Sanders is that he got a post office renamed. Ummmm, how long has he been a Senator again????

"Duuuuuh, I am going to vote for Clinton because I recognize her NAME" was particularly rich. Because, I guess, only "some people" are "smart" and consider things like "the issues," or "experience" or other factors when choosing a candidate.

You know, nothing shocks me here anymore. Absolutely nothing. But sometimes, something comes along that so markedly shows how some white people think about black people, hell how they think about their supposedly "fellow" Democrats and it just kind of gives you pause, you know what I'm saying? That was one of those times as well as the "well, they're voting against their own interests" bit as well. Because the idea that black people, Hispanics, women, Democrats as a whole are so stupid that they are giving Hillary these absolutely MASSIVE approval ratings merely because they know who she is or are too damned stupid to "know what's good for 'em" is one of those statements that says a hell of alot more about the person making it (that they've got their fingers in their ears and their eyes scrunched shut trying DESPERATELY to ignore the truth and the obvious) than about the people they're talking about.

I've heard from right-wingers: that African Americans, by voting for Pres. Obama, voted against their own self-interests, and that they only voted for him because he is also African Americans. One person even told me that this was evidence that African Americans shouldn't be allowed to vote, because they displayed a lack of intelligence by voting the way they did. Yes, really.

Do progressive people realize what they're saying when they make arguments like this? I don't know if they're aware just what assumptions lie behind their statements.

I found it from a new one. I wanted to see the latest on flooding and had to sign in to use my Ignore and Trash feature.

Sure saw one or two going at you for plain talking and I understood what you meant. It was ugly there.

Wondering if anyone else has that reaction can tell me how you guys stop that happening. TIA.

any criticisms about Bill's policies which have hurt black Americans as a whole.

I cannot bring up anything about Hillary, Bill, or their surrogates' horribly racist behavior during the 2008 primaries--those are dismissed, ignored. I am told to "chill out" and shut up. I am told that the Clintons are not racists. Rather than even acknowledge the scorched earth politics they resorted to in 2008, many Clinton supports quickly dismiss or even deny that such a thing happened. What is worse, they falsely claim that the Obama camp planted these things in the minds of black voters. But voters are not stupid. We are not dumb. I heard these statements myself. This wasn't a figment of my imagination. I heard it!

The Clintons never apologized for their behavior--even as black Americans have stood by them throughout all the scandals. Black voters have been most loyal of ANY constituency group.

Maybe we need to start having a more critical eye. Interesting I see more criticism of Obama (fair and not), but it was partly Clinton's policies that have continued to have an adverse impact on the black community; yet, I see no criticism at all of him.

I've read a bit about the 2008 primaries here and some Clinton supporters have dismissed that as well.

I actually think it is key, for some at least. We see repeated threads resurrecting presidents from the Jim Crow era, even after having it pointed out now problematic it is to long for those days. Some respond extremely hostility if you even raise the issue, call us idiots for not assuming they don't mean that. Well, if they don't, why do they keep hearkening back to a past when most Americans were denies equal rights and lived in crippling poverty? The hostile anger in response is hardly reassuring, nor is it intended to be.

African Americans are fine as long as they go along with what the people who matter--themselves--want, but if they start raising their own concerns and talking about stuff like white privilege and racism--if they start acting too black-- that is "divisive." Feminists are okay as long as they focus on abortion, on making it easier for men to have sexual access to women, but if they threaten the privilege of liberal men, then that is "divisive." People have openly lamented the drift of the party toward the concerns of women, people of color, and LGBT as part of the "Third Way." They have dismissed Obama's DOJ as doing "nothing," referring to "no-balls Holder," someone so ineffective as to be emasculated. In reality, we know Holder did a great deal for voting rights and rape victims on college campuses. Those accomplishments can only be considered nothing when they people whose lives they effect are nothing. The sum total of these comments leaves me with an impression that, like the GOP, they want to take America back, though they have somewhat different visions of what that past was like.

PROUD to make sure that I am on the opposite end of every single position they hold. They could say "I'm pro-puppies!" and it will suddenly turn me pro-kittens.

Because not only is that insult the ravings of the paranoid and the stupid, it's also a surefire way to guarantee that whoever is tossing it out has NO CLUE of this country's racial history and couldn't care less about it. Like you said, the fact that this insult is usually accompanied by open pining for the "Good Old Days" and is typically tossed at people advocating for women, minorities and gays could not make their agenda more transparent. One of the many reasons alot of minorities don't see much difference between some of these folks and the Tea Party.

Hell, the Socialists don't want anything to do with Bernie, anymore--they insult him by calling him a (gasp) .... (wait for it) .... (I had to laugh, too...!)


DEMOCRAT!!!





Honest to GAWD, I am not kidding about this....

Just this month, courtesy of SocialistWorker.org (the whole thing is ugly, but here's just a snip):

It sounds a lot like they've got the same copy editor as some of the Clinton-hatin' crew up in here!

They get so MAD about shit--Ooooh--he's a WARMONGER!!!! Oooooh, he's a RACIST!!!!! Oooooh--he's a ZIONIST!!!! OOOooooh--he's 'pro-NSA!!!!!"

I'm not kidding--read some of this stuff, take out Sanders, put in Clinton, and it sounds like some of the nuance-free pablum I've seen here--just hate, anger, misrepresentation and a complete failure to look at the Big Picture:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/05/15/sand-m15.html

Last edited Wed May 27, 2015, 03:29 AM - Edit history (1)

I've come to see the SWP like the Libertarians - because with of the take no prisoners, intense hatred of Democrats, far more than Republicans, they end up with the same effect.

I'm sick of such being collateral damage while these groups bring about a Utopia over me and my friends and family's dead bodies!

I look to the end results. I know these characters consider Democrats as inferior as the GOP and Libertarians do.

We're just dumb to them, don't know what we're doing, and refuse to listen to their wisdom.

Note: Using the term Messiah is not dissing Bernie, it may seem that way, but it's been a bit too much to listen to some of it. And doesn't it seem like some of the incivility has died down a little bit?

I really like both candidates, but that article would really set some of the members aflame. It's really OTT, but it does fit the way the SWP truly feels about Democrats. No POTUS what isn't doctrinaire will be accepted by them.

And as I said when Obama took office, those who railed about him being a warmonger, trying to end a war he disagreed with, didn't know what the job title entitles. I said early on, I knew I wasn't voting for the Prince of Peace when I voted, but a secular government official.

So why was he being held to that standard, even by those who didn't believe in such?

Would come only with a great deal of collateral damage to human beings.

I'm just not ready to tear America to shreds when it could mean older people being thrown out in the streets - just to make a point.

And I'm convinced some of these folks think on day one - everyone with the tiniest bit of money or a home is going to be rounded up, given a potato sack to wear - and raw potatoes to eat for punishment.

It's an extreme concept - but I read a few posts last year / engaged with someone who thought everyone should be taxed down to $15 an hour. That was the way to equality.

My first thought - she lived in a square state and didn't own a home.

You send very single mortgage holder into the streets in NJ.

Utopia Freshwest - Utopia!

while the rest were pining away for Warren. They've even alienated you. That is quite an accomplishment.

....than to tear down other folks and their achievements.

like health care and choice and decent people on the Supremes, or they're not. We're never going to find a candidate who checks every block, EVER--because all politics is local.

Picking apart a candidate's record looking for the "gotcha" moments is just lame as hell, IMO. In order for candidates to gain experience, they've gotta make a few missteps. If they don't there's something not-quite-right.

I look at the arc of a candidate's intentions. Both Clinton and Sanders are on the right side of justice. They're on the right side of equality in all its forms. They're on the right side of children and the elderly. To try to tear one or the other apart is just silly. I did have to laugh at those World Socialist screeds, though--the HRC Bashing Club has apparently taken a few lessons over that way!

Picking apart a candidate's record looking for the "gotcha" moments is just lame as hell, IMO. In order for candidates to gain experience, they've gotta make a few missteps. If they don't there's something not-quite-right.

I look at the arc of a candidate's intentions. Both Clinton and Sanders are on the right side of justice. They're on the right side of equality in all its forms. They're on the right side of children and the elderly. To try to tear one or the other apart is just silly.

The cherry picking

Someone tried that int O'Malley group and called those who liked Sanders - Sandernistas.

Evidently the same poster posted something similar in the Sanders group?

I'm gonna say someone who posts something like that - doesn't really want any Democratic party member to ascend tithe white house.

I think it's an effort to associate Sanders with "revolutionary" types who want to pull down the existing government. It does seem to me like a "scare" association.

Of course, the problem there is that kids today, thanks to Teaching to the Test, think Ronald Reagan was a founding father--they probably think The Sandinistas was one of their parents' favorite emo rock groups!

Last edited Sun May 24, 2015, 05:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That right there:

'nor is it intended to be' because they are telling us to STFU.

And the maudlin longing for the past and 'my friends' routine is so Rush Limbaugh!

And the fans sound like Dittoheads!

I put on Ignore anyone who tried the canard of the 3rd Way. They diss a lot of people who don't agree with DINOs and all the rest, with a broad brush.

But they're telling those who don't follow the mob, to FOAD.

HRC and Sanders have some fences to mend with POC... I feel onpatrol said it best...

All of that 99% stuff is secondary to one's life being in jeopardy.

I feel we are being played, truly, by media and DUers on both sides of this issue (not the real people in danger) who want to cause more despair. They have no solution but yelling.

I'm not talkng about AA's - I'm talking about hangers on who hide behind the dead bodies of AA's for their agenda.

MADem explained how very well.

...her "hard working white people" comment was meant to get those white voters in states where they all knew Obama couldn't win due to his skin color voting for her. The more she found herself losing the caucuses, delegates and Super Delegates, the worse she, her husband and their surrogates became.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why some black folk here on DU and in the general black electorate don't remember--dismiss, even ignore--the despicable behavior of the Clintons, their surrogates and supporters during the primaries. The racism was so real and so palatable that I nearly became physical ill whenever I saw Hillary or her husband back them.

There were never any apologies to black voters who have always adored Bill Clinton, even when he lied to us. Black folk were always the most loyal and made the most excuses for this man's behavior...and worst of all--HIS HORRIBLE POLICIES that continue to have negative impacts on the black community as a whole. ( Oh, I'm sorry...we blame Obama for that, not those responsible! )

Anyway, for these reasons I simply cannot support HRC and I will not. I was working on that and trying to come to a place of forgiveness, but I just cannot. Clinton stink and hubris won't allow me to do so.

(At least not right now...maybe I'll feel different later...but not now.)

What the Clintons did to Obama in 2008 was not just play the race card, they played the entire race deck. African American voters who can forgive that are better people than I am and I don't have a dog in that fight (my other 25% is Native American).

I haven't always agreed with Obama's policies, in fact I've been critical of them on occasion. Nevertheless I still firmly believe that selecting him as the 2008 nominee was the correct decision, and that nominating Hillary Clinton would have more or less assured that Sarah Palin would right now be a heartbeat away from the White House.

The Snoop Dog thread put all of that to rest. The thread to which you refer is another in what I assume will be an ongoing flow of confirmations.

"Oh, he's rich so THAT'S why he's supporting Hillary!" "He doesn't care anymore about the hood since he got his so THAT'S why he's supporting Hillary!"

Because this is the same crowd that thinks that class is the last great hurdle to jump over now in Western society and so if a rich black man or rich black woman supports the Great Satan that is Hillary, it must be because s/he's got theirs and doesn't care about regular black people anymore. These folks also believe that because Beyonce and Oprah are stinking rich, that they no longer face racism or discrimination or that any discrimination they actually do face because of the color of their skin isn't really a big deal because they are rich.

One black man. Three women, one white, two women of color. They are rich. So they are free. Not.

Wealth without equality means absolutely nothing. Economic justice without social just is , in a word, meaningless.

As was my Beyonce thread.

It's the "new and improved" DU where libertarians accuse black people of being Third Way or not being black at all.

I pointed out they wouldn't have made it one day in Calvin Broadus' world and that he married innate intelligence and business acumen to musical talent.

They also said he is an anachronism...He's as anachronistic as Paul McCartney, Elton John, and Mick Jagger who still play to packed houses and are seen as rock and roll elders.


Beyonce got trashed for being rich and some of the criticism was personal.


I tried autosearch to resurrect those threads but it was futile.

My gf and I lost everything in The Great Recession, everything!!!

Out of the blue I get a envelope in the mail at a condo in Orlando I was living in that my friend was letting me and her stay in temporarily for free...It's a check for $2,800.00 or so that was escrow money for the insurance on my foreclosed home.

We took that money to buy a one way ticket to L A where she is from. We were moving a lot and even lived for a while in a hostel in Koreatown.

She eventually found a job and we rented a room from a woman in Van Nuys. This is where the story gets good. Her daughter was a friend of Ice Cube's son... She even went to a Lakers game with him and her mom was telling me about all the security they had...One time she went to their home in Encino and Ice was there and she asked Ice if she could call him Ice. He said, "no, you call me Mr. Jackson."


I thought that was a great story.

BTW, there is a biopic on NWA that comes out on 8/14:

I am surprised the collective groans from many DU'ers weren't heard the world over.

As a side note, from the gay perspective (they are slamming us too), I remember more than a few posts screeching about Clinton "pandering" to the GLBT community because of the rainbow "H", yet now all kinds of people, including a few of those who made "pandering" comments, are now supporting rainbow "Bernie" logos.

It is so insulting, and IMO, bigoted, to tell a minority person what they feel or don't feel, it is just a reminder they are the majority, and "we just live in their world!"

and purports to be a Bernie Sanders support thread.

I've said it before a million times, some of these people CANNOT BE FOR REAL. How stupid would you have to be to think that tossing fact free stupidity at the first black president with a 65-85% approval among Democrats is a winning strategy to win people, especially minority groups that no Dem can win without, to your side? Is it possible that anyone could honestly be that dumb?

And you're right - there is no doubt that it's a reminder for us to remember our places. That's why when that person came into the thread saying that the 87% support for Hillary from blacks was "people voting against their best interests" all I could do was just shake my head. Once again, another ignorant, paternalistic swipe that black folks are too stupid to support a candidate for any other reason than we know her name or because we are too stupid to know what's good for us. It's unreal.

The comment about Sanders being more aware of racial issues than Obama....thank G-d I wasn't eating anything or I would have choked! I'd like to say I am surprised by some of the comments, but I am really not. Even in college, before the internet, I would hear similar things in regards to AA and their relation to politics and other issues which directly affected them.

"Once again, another ignorant, paternalistic swipe that black folks are too stupid to support a candidate for any other reason than we know her name or because we are too stupid to know what's good for us. It's unreal. "

Know what else is as "unreal", more than few say the same about poor people! Yet, they are supposedly concerned about the poor. Shop at Wal-Mart? HEATHEN! HATER OF POOR PEOPLE! Too many are wrapped in their own worlds to actually see their world isn't the world. Their reality isn't the reality of everyone else.

It is maddening for sure. Is it any wonder than many AA, gays, Jews, and a few other groups no longer or rarely post here?!

I just don't get it. How does a gay person vote Republican?!? Seriously! Hell, even Jews! Sure, the Republicans "love" Israel, but they hate Jews! They don't "love" Israel, they "need" Israel, either to fulfill their end world fantasies, or serve as a military outpost in a hostile region. It is so confounding.

I have had to step away from DU a few times because of the poor "bashing" I see here. Hell, even those of us in the middle class. I go to Wal-Mart...EVIL. Go to Costco or Target, well, I don't live near either! It would be 60 miles round trip, which means driving a car...EVIL! I should be biking everywhere, never mind this town isn't bicycle friendly and I don't have a death wish. I buy cheaper food (usually with coupons...I am a really good couponer)...why don't you buy organic?! EVIL! I ain't paying three fucking dollars for a bell pepper (and no, I am NOT joking)! Why don't you grow your own?! EVIL! Well, I am not a gardener, any more than I am mechanic, so I have no business in the garden or under the hood of a car. But, when it comes down to it, I am pretty fortunate. I have a loving and good husband, a nice home, and a few bucks in the bank...knocking on wood. Others don't' live in my world. I do what I can, but for some, it is never good enough.

The constant pitting of minorities against one another, not a right-wing thing, but a left-wing thing! The right tramps us down, but some on the left, ignore us or remind us how they know such much better than we do.

Poor people are not stupid just because they are having trouble getting food!

I got so incensed on that thread and I posted and I have never heard it mentioned again.

minorities, women and the poor are only willing to do so as long as these poor misbegotten folks DO AS THEY'RE TOLD.

We've had this discussion in this forum a thousand times. That there is a certain cadre of white "liberals" who may have the noblest of intentions but honestly do believe that they are smarter/wiser/better than many of the people that they are "advocating" for. These people get the most love and affection from these white "liberals" when they do as the smarter/wiser/better liberals tell them what to do, think the way they want them to to think, and agree with the issues they think should be most important to them.

It is paternalism, prejudice and privilege at its most horrendous. Whenever I see these people, I am always tempted to ask, "well if you guys are so much smarter/better/wiser than everyone else, why aren't the halls of power filled to overflowing with your spiritual brethren?" but then that launches into unhinged howls about how the Powers that Be/Alien Overlords/Illuminati/Mafia etc. "won't let them" win and everything just goes to shit so now I don't even bother.

What did the Black (Female) DUer post in her Goodbye DU OP? ... white liberals (DUer?) like their negroes, so long as we are victims or servants?

as conservatives of ANY stripe, but white ones especially--THIS is what I meant. And you've articulated exactly what I and many others have been talking about.

But, let one of us call out the racism that is inherent in Liberal America and in the Democratic Party. What will happen? Gnashing of teeth! Demanding that we PROVE racism exists on DU and elsewhere in liberal and/or Democratic circles. Accusing US of being the racists. And the classic: telling us to "chill out," "shut up," and "it's not about race; it's all CLASS!".

If I see that again, I will puke.

It lets me know how absolutely clueless someone is.

and as absurd as it is, I can't really say it surprises me. They are so used to talking down to people, the idea that experiencing racism might actually matter is evidently lost.

The one that made me realize that I'm going to have to be in it for myself was the class division amongst blacks nonsense.

The quality and extent of ignorance blew me away.

That's someone who has never been at a black wedding or funeral or family reunion.

The hubris and condescension in there are staggering. Clearly, the then two-year-old Barack Obama should have hied himself from Hawaii to Washington, DC, to march with Dr. King. Or something. Sadly, there's a lot of that going round this place these days.

Uh, I'm gonna go with Nothing? Excellent o.p., by the way. And I stand by my earlier prediction that Bernie Sanders won't be able to make any significant inroads into HRC's support in the black community.

I don't know why anyone would be surprised that given the total lack of respect shown to the current president, that black folks took a hike from this place. Those of us remaining are either gluttons for punishment, or are just too damned stubborn to be run off. I'm not interested in Bernie Sanders, either as a legislator, and certainly not the nominee for the Democratic party. In case anyone's forgotten, he was the ornery asshole who was seeking a Democrat to primary the president (the first black POTUS) in his re-election bid. Bernie's not even a Democrat, what the hell gave him the right to insinuate himself into our intra-party politics? And caucusing with us is not the same as being a party member.

Bernie's supporters, and I'm almost certain Michael Moore will be one, haven't a clue how much they've alienated the black community. When Michael Moore can say that the first black president will only be remembered for that, I've got a serious problem with liberals and liberalism in general. There's something very ugly going on, and the blind contempt for Obama has obviously transferred to his black supporters. Maybe they think we're the only group of supporters left?

When I read a post of some young white know nothing, trying to explain black people to black people, I know we've gone through the looking glass, and there ain't no coming back from that. We have a poster who has obviously set out to drive a wedge between Black Lives Matter, and the black community at large (not that they give a shit about "Black Lives&quot , but they're trying like hell to be divisive. Of course, that's never going to happen because in the black community we know that no matter what your status, or what you've achieved, to many outside our community we still "all look alike". They did the same thing with Occupy, when a civil rights legend who was only there to lend support (John Lewis) was booed offstage. Since the election of Barack Obama, I've learned much more about liberals than I ever cared to.

There was a poster the other day who thought that the election of Bernie Sanders would somehow be good for Julian Assange & Edward Snowden. Considering U.S. public opinion of those two, that's not something I'd be saying out loud if I were a Bernie supporter.

I don't see Sanders getting the black community OR the blue collar crafts/skilled workers aka three trucks at most business owners. I don't see him getting the financial support of the small business "shop" owners.

I don't see him offering much to working class kids in rural and urban areas that didn't get the basics in their formative education who need to start making serious money now - not in seven years. I see that from Webb and O'Malley - I don't see it from Sanders.

And if Clinton ascends - O'Malley and Webb supporters will throw our support and vote behind her.

But I'll be asking her to find room in her education budget for kids that want to learn welding, soldering, HVAC, auto repair, etc etc.

And for anyone who thinks that's a "male only" proposition - my husband's "fair haired girl" is a 25 year old African American woman from Camden NJ who used to hide in a cast iron bath tub to avoid bullets. She was on track to be a nail technician until he did career day 9 years ago and she heard "yes she can".

She's making 80k a year without student loans and has hung from church ceilings in Belgium, Spain, and Ireland this year.


She couldn't have imagined that ten years ago - that her passport would be filled, she'd have a condo in Bucks County AND tat she could pay for her younger brother to go to Community College.

Sorry for the rant - but Sanders may "get that" - but he might be spending too much time on Snowden and Assange to communicate ideas that will expand the skilled/artisan class. We can only get so far without people who can thrown hammers against anvils - and these 3D printers can only do so much.

While we can all get discouraged (I know I do at times) it's also amazing to think of positive examples like the one you gave.

I've seen this type of thing happen in my area too. One of my best friends started out as a production assistant in movies, then moved to the art department, has worked as a key grip and now she's working as an assistant director.

When I first met her she was living out of her car, she had just moved here and didn't know anyone. I liked her immediately. You can just tell with some people, how they are very attentive and you know you can recommend them. I introduced her to people who hired her and she's proven herself every step of the way.

I get so much satisfaction from that, seeing people work hard and get ahead, breaking down barriers in what used to be more male dominated departments. She has even worked as 'lead man' and it always cracks me up when she says it. She's just tough and cool.

Now I know I'm blabbing a lot, lol. It's fun sometimes to not just talk political candidates. I love sharing real stories too. I'm often encouraged by your posts (and those of everyone in this group) and just felt like sharing.

I don't want to go starting any rumors, roflmao.

Yes, precisely. I love mentoring and providing a helping hand.

. . . That I know of.






On a side bar - I've asked what he would do if he ever found out he had a long lost 'love child' - he's like -

Shit like that you just gotta go with!

Then he posed the question back and I just shook my head in disgust.

Especially that he would pose the question back to you. You'd be like 'What? I had a kid? Gee. I didn't even know!'

Someone may peel off a significant chunk of AA's, but it won't be Bernie Sanders, I can almost guarantee it. Except here at DU, nobody's talking about him. They're already griping that "the media" isn't covering him seriously. I use black barbershops & beauty salons as my gauge of public sentiment in my community. As we know, if they ain't talking about you where we "get our hair did" (per my Grandma), they either (a)don't know who you are, or (b)don't give a shit. I'm going with Option "B".

We see governments all over Europe taking sharp right turns, and quite frankly, it's kinda scary. Hopefully, we won't do that, but this country is not going to elect the leftiest of the left, when the rest of the western world is going in the opposite direction. Center left is just fine by me. If that makes me "Turd Way", so be it. Screaming about "millionaires & billionaires" can only carry you so far.

And kudos to your husband for seeing a need, and actually doing something about it. I wish there was much more of that. And to be plucked out of obscurity, and given an opportunity like this, must be an emotional rollercoaster for that lucky young lady. I hope she will pay it forward.

BabyGirl 1SBM, I asked (for the first time) what Mrs. 1SBM thought of Bernie Sanders? Her response was, "Who?"

Now this is a woman who, while largely disinterested in politics, has not missed an election since 1978; does about 10-15 hours a week doing volunteer work with the low-incomed folks ... (and sleeps next to a guy that IS fully politically engaged!) ... She is the demographic that Bernie needs (even more so than me) and she does even know who he is.

But even worse, after doing the google and seeing his platform, she said, "I like what he is for; but, I see he's been in Congress for nearly 40 years ... why am I just now hearing of him? He may have been talking about this stuff; but, he certainly hasn't accomplished much of note!"

Again, she is the demographic that Bernie needs.

puffing around DC for decades, and what's he got to show for it? If he's as influential as his supporters seem to think, why hasn't he been able to drag his colleagues (kicking & screaming) to his causes? And what's going to make them listen to him in the White House, when he's been just across the aisle all these years? It defies logic. Much like your wife, I observe that Bernie says a lot of "good stuff", but that seems to be where it ends.

"Look at all his amendments!!!" (Read: He voted for a bad bill because his amendment made it less bad?)

I hate to say it; but, it seems his 40+ year career can be summed up as, "He introduced a lot of stuff that never left committee; he voted against a lot of stuff that passed, anyway; and, he voted for some bad stuff that he made less bad through amendments."

That is not too impressive ... actual Dennis Kucinich (who was my early 2008 Primary choice, because I'm from Cleveland and knew his grit) comes to mind.

but at the end of the day, it's about accomplishments (or lack thereof) over a period of four decades. Kooch was a firebrand, but here again, what were his accomplishments, besides naming a post office?

before I am labeled a Bernie-basher and in the HRC tank.

2012 DNC and the insistence that they were the only ones who cared if people had anything to eat, that the DP had done nothing for the poor, etc., was a meme I refuted with data and they studiously avoided my post and continued to diss PBO and Democrats on the thread.

That is a pattern, so I no longer refute that way. ProSense was treated vilely for her 'blue links.' I was greatly disappointed at how so much of these 'liberal' things turned out.

Once again, I think MADem has a good analysis of what is going on with Sanders. And I don't see that the rude supporters care about him, he's just a tool against HRC and the Democrats.

As far as AA's leaving, I get that, but I would truly miss them since this group is the best informed of any group and it discusses things from all POV. The idea that AA's do not know what is going is ludricous. AA's can't afford to play ignorant and naive. It makes the discussions here much more important.

I've said before, I have a mostly favorable opinion of Hillary but that doesn't necessarily mean I think she needs to be president. But I would be happy with her (or Sanders for that matter) and don't consider her the root of all evil the way so many miserably clueless people here do.

Yeah, the only thing here that's worse than the cluelessness about the black community is the efforts to try to "compartmentalize" us from people who have probably never had a black person in their homes as friends, let alone spend enough time around enough black folks to actually have a reality based opinion about us. The whole "there is a class divide in the black community" bit was the dumbest thing I've seen in a while. Until I saw the butthurt from someone who was actually pissed and alerted on my post where I responded to someone who noted that Bernie's supporters are "overwhelmingly white." Damn, if the God's honest truth hurts people's feelings here then I totally get why there is so much dishonesty and stupidity flooding these boards.

I honestly don't think Bernie has a strong chance with black, Hispanic and other minority communities either. His participation in the March on Washington 50 years ago notwithstanding. And any person that wants to be the Dem party leader and doesn't speak to or connect with minorities doesn't have a chance in hell in becoming President. It's really that simple.

Hillary supporter. The good news is that some of my fellow Obama supporters are backing other candidates, and I haven't lost one of shred of respect for them. We just differ about this. That's what grownups do.

It's obvious to me that both Bernie Sanders & Elizabeth Warren have been used as a bludgeon against other Democrats, and that helped me make up my mind. Barack Obama was a once in a lifetime candidate who struck a nerve in a war weary population, and I just don't see anyone, including Hillary, capturing the imagination of the world in quite the same way, but I especially can't see that with a seriously unpolished candidate like Bernie Sanders.

Barack Obama's 2008 campaign is still being emulated across the globe. We saw it in India. We saw it in the UK, and I'm sitting here listening to a victory rally in Spain, where they're screaming "YES WE CAN"! or "Sí, se puede".

Truth be told, Hispanics backed Hillary over Obama in the '08 primary, but they got over it, and voted for him overwhelmingly in the general election. I don't see that affection transferring to Bernie, especially if the mindset of his DU supporters is the attitude of his campaign. We don't need some smug, pie-in-the-sky white liberal with more degrees than common sense, calling us "uninformed" or "low information voters", or that they know what's best for us. I mean damn, why not just pat me on the head, and be done with it, one gesture is just as insulting as the other. Screw That!

ecstatic, I am overjoyed that I was around during this time and had the opportunity to vote for him twice. And you are so right, his achievements are being heralded across the globe and his campaign and style of campaigning is being imitated EVERYWHERE. His popularity in America is rising once again but it is nowhere near how popular he is around the world. In Australia, people are still talking about the smack down he gave to the Prime Minister here on climate change.

He has not been perfect and I have disagreed with him on some issues but overall, I am beyond pleased with his presidency and I am by no means alone. When Bush was in office, these same folks calling Obama a "liar" a "con man" and a "Trojan horse" looked at his dismal approval ratings around the world as proof of what a fuckwit he was. These same folks look at the high support Obama gets worldwide and think... what exactly? God only knows what goes through these people's minds beyond "MUST. SCREAM. LOUDLY. Will look like I have actual power and influence that way!!1" And I could not agree with you more that Warren and Sanders have both been used by their "supporters" as a cudgel to knock this president over the head with. Their agenda at sowing division between a popular Dem president and his base could truly not be more obvious and I sincerely hope it fails openly, loudly and grandly and it very likely will.

You mark my words TD, I think before either you or myself are in the grave, there will be a Barack Obama Day in this country. And the haters and ignorami on BOTH sides of the political spectrum who have screamed and cursed his every move will be remembered with the same disgust that we reserve for the bigots who threw rocks at and cursed every move that MLK made. Maybe Obama's opponents are as vile and violent as King's were (and God please let it stay that way), but they are no less ignorant. I can't wait until the moment they understand they are on the wrong side of history and always have been.

For ever damn word you have written here.

Thank you for having two feet firmly planted in reality. You express yourself with eloquence and passion.

I was not here for 2008. Yet I was following Obama closely. I watched and listened hard to all of it. When we neared election day, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that he would be our next President. You could almost feel the ground swell that was happening. I just knew there was something happening here.

My only wish is that I will live long enough to see a Barack Obama Day~ Doubtful yet, one can hope. As it is I am so extraordinarily grateful that I was here for his 2 terms.

Thanks~ Number23

though it is still very early and anything could happen!

DU seems to be of the mindset that if a handful of posters can blanket this board with pro-Bernie posts and scream at and shout down the Hillary supporters, that will mean... something. The almost manic level of Bernie "support" here seems to be in direct counter to his support in the real world.

You weren't here in 2008 but this feels incredibly similar to the manic level of support that DU tossed to Dennis Kucinich as this place hurled the dumbest, nastiest things imaginable at Obama and Hillary which of course, had no effect then and will probably have the same effect now.

It's who they want to USE for their OWN 'best interests.' They assume the poor, minorities, etc. are just looking for a hero.

They should look in the mirror and at their 1% saints, like the G.A.S. trio. Really, they think we are that credulous as to idolize their gods, who never did SHIT For us? Who call us stupid and all kinds of names? REALLY?

Then the ones who say they won't vote, and it doesn't matter who is in office, because it's all the same? Must be nice living up on that fluffy white cloud!

Then the really disgusting ones who say they want revolution and blood in the streets. And then, only then, will the dumb oppressed look up to them and say, 'Yessir! You were right all along! We'll put our ass on the line, just teach us, Jedi Master!'

People that are really so careless with the lives of others that they could help, but see them as just collateral damage, cannot be trusted wth leadership and aren't worth following.

I gotta go to sleep, excuse the rant but I can't think of where else I feel safe to vent about this.

Misanthrope Sycophant Monster .

See Ya, got a big Hill to climb .

And insisting anyone holding out for a more favorable candidate were "right-wing ratfuckers"

Welcome to the primary season on DU, I guess.

So, has O'Malley declared yet?

If you aren't interested in discussing the topic at hand, then you can just scoot along and hopefully derail another thread somewhere else.

My impression was "The behavior of some of this candidate's supporters has me concerned about our contenders" was the topic. Is that mistaken?

I'm simply noting that it's not limited to one candidate's supporters, and that unfortunately, maybe we can't expect anything but such teeth-gnashing and slap-fighting during the primaries. I've sen some threads from "Back i nthe day" in 2008, it doesn't look like it was hte most polite period of DU history.

You might want to re-read the original post here.

But I do want to know whether i am misunderstanding the poster's topic, just in case.