If you do something for someone expecting something in return, or expecting not to get burned, then you really are doing it for yourself, not for others.

and ties in with your OP a bit. It has had me thinking this morning, too. I'm not religious but I do like the work of Jean Vanier, who is devoted to working with the impoverished and those who feel "broken."


"Is it possible to live a covenant of love with those who are poor or broken for the rest of our lives? This is the fundamental question at the heart of L'Arche but also at the heart of many organizations and at the heart of humanity. Is it possible to bridge the gap?

Many groups began in this beautiful way; the lives of the poor and broken were intermingled with the lives of the strong and generous. They formed community together. But little by little this began to break down. The strong and the generous may have continued to give food to the hungry but they no longer are with them."

This separation continues to happen today, not only regarding those who are hungry for food, but those hungering for justice.

Applying a single incident to a group. Generalization. Post hoc ergo propter hoc. There are many names for applying the specific to the general. It's one of the most common logical errors humans are prone to make. By associating a single point of data with an entire group of people, that error is the cause of so much sorrow and misfortune that it can't be overestimated.

There's no evidence at all that anyone served by that homeless shelter had anything to do with rifling through those cars, but the proximity of the event led people to blame those nearby. How sad that is and how common.

Sad.

Who knows who it was.

In a charitable organization I brain stormed into being . . . I don't do it for kudos or so that people will think better of me or applaud me or be 'kinder' to me. You can't even find my 'name' on it. I'm not doing it for that stuff - I just want to help.

Maybe her motivation is to 'say' she does this? I know this much - I wouldn't want her volunteering at my thing - and I would give my compadres at the local food banks a heads up. These are the types that want to put on the fancy dress for the annual event - but not stack cans or clean pots and pans or go throw the about to be tossed veggie bins.

Yet I will say this, you are a good woman.

My mom at 89 is still doing food pantry once a month. Even after some very serious health issues earlier this year, she still does her 2 hours a month. As you know that is a lot of work at any age. Once actively involved at church and their outreach programs, most of that is to much for her now.

There are no parties to dress for, there are meetings at the local diner for planning, it's kind of a dump, yet the food is excellent.

Thanks JAG.

My usual response when someone steals something from me is "that person must have needed that more than I did"

I am not always that gracious, but it is what I try and think.

Then I thought about how much work it was to take that tailgate off of that 3/4 ton PU and I dont know, seemed like a lot of work

Not sure why they did it.

Am sure that in most cases when someone steals it is because they have to, not always, but usually.

A man had the bumpers stolen off the truck. The adjuster, my friend, went to the repair garage to see that garage putting on used replacement bumpers.

The problem was, those bumpers also had the victim's license plate on them ....

A)Volunteering, social activism, trying to change laws, change minds...I'll take any of the aforementioned.

B) Yes. Hence when people are trying to court favorable views from a particular group, they always mention they have done xyz for said group. That paternalistic type mindset toward any group of disadvantaged or marginalized group is problematic but some liberal/progressive don't see it as such.

I don;t blame anyone for being upset at having been robbed/car broken into etc., It's a violation of person space at the very least.

(I had my handbag stolen out of the trunk of our car 2 weeks ago — and I am still a bit rattled about that — I was upset that it happened to me. I still don;t get why it happened.)

That said, it seems that her violation (personal and real) needs someone to blame, blaming it on the homeless I think is an indicator of motive. I think woman is not a bad person, I think she is someone who needed to find a boogeyman to blame on her misfortune.

That homeless guy makes a really good point. How many people are homeless and always did the right thing?

Personally I learned that doing a good thing is just that: you did a good thing to help a person out. there is no expectation for a return on your good deed… it isn't an investment.

If there is a desire for a return on a deed, it is not really a good deed.

Bad shit happens to everyone. Doing good is not a ticket to the do gooders club.

I don't know if I answered your query. I just needed to say this. I have met far too many people that help the underserved as thought they were better than those they were serving.

First - as others have asked, why would the woman you're talking about immediately assume that it was one of the homeless people from the shelter who rifled her car? From what I've seen in a couple other cities, homeless shelters aren't necessarily located in particularly "nice" areas. If this shelter was in or around an economically depressed area, wouldn't there be plenty of other possible perpetrators around besides the shelter clients?

Second - "After all we've done for them..." The classic cry of the put-upon paternalistic do-gooder - who, in their secret heart of hearts, considers themselves superior to those whom they are helping.

The homeless man's second question was right on. There is no doubt a species of do-gooder whose sense of self is wrapped up in performing good works (by their personal standards) because they want to see themselves - and be seen by others - as a "good person". But they are not acting in actual solidarity with those they presume to help, they hold themselves apart from, and (if they are honest) superior to, those unfortunates who are the recipients of the do-gooders' good works.

Yes, your story is a great analogy to the reaction of *some* Sanders supporters to the Seattle event. Because there's a very distinct difference between "helping", and actually standing with.

I asked myself the same questions after NRN about BLM and Sanders.
But after Seattle, I actually read the BLM Seattle statement.
It was enlightening.
Also, several DUers helped me along in looking at things from an AA point of view (Thanks, Bravenak, Heaven5, 1SBM, Number23 and yes, even Tarheel Dem).