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steve2470

(37,457 posts)
Thu Dec 31, 2015, 03:22 PM Dec 2015

Chris Rock: 'If Jennifer Lawrence were black, she’d really have something to complain about'

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/dec/31/chris-rock-if-jennifer-lawrence-were-black-shed-really-have-something-to-complain-about

Chris Rock, the stand-up comic and film-maker, has cautioned that the gender pay debate in Hollywood risks overlooking the injustice of black actors being paid less than their white counterparts.

Speaking as part of a profile of the Saturday Night Live actor Leslie Jones in the New Yorker, Rock appeared to take exception to the territory staked out by Jennifer Lawrence, saying that if she wasn’t white, she would have more cause for complaint.

In an essay for Lena Dunham’s Lenny newsletter published in October, the Hunger Games star wrote about her feelings of anger and self-loathing in the wake of the revelations that she and Amy Adams had been paid less than their male co-stars in American Hustle.

“Black women have the hardest gig in show business,” said Rock. “You hear Jennifer Lawrence complaining about getting paid less because she’s a woman – if she was black, she’d really have something to complain about.”
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JI7

(89,249 posts)
2. while this is true about the pay i think it's better to bring it up in itself
Thu Dec 31, 2015, 03:39 PM
Dec 2015

Rather than as a response to another unfairness.

There are so many problems when it comes to hollywood and minorities . Much of it has to do with what gets put out in the first place and how much of it is focused on making sure white people will be ok with it.

Even films that should be about some minority group have to have some focus on white character .

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
3. Being underpaid for what you are is wrong, no matter who you are.
Thu Dec 31, 2015, 03:49 PM
Dec 2015

Depressing wages for one group keeps wages down for others. Chris is a smart guy, I'm sure he knows that.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
4. They're complementary arguments, to my view.
Thu Dec 31, 2015, 05:07 PM
Dec 2015

A rising tide lifts all boats. The women's movement and the quest for racial equality have been entangled for more than a century, pulling one another onward and upward, and they can and do help one another.

I don't think it's a contest. This thing can be true, and that thing can also be true.

The message comes through louder and clearer when someone like Viola Davis delivers it, too. She's working with a double-whammy when she plays the Paycheck Games.

The more people gripe about inequality, the harder it is for it to stand unquestioned and unchallenged.

lib87

(535 posts)
5. If She Was a Young Black Woman in Hollywood
Fri Jan 1, 2016, 06:44 PM
Jan 2016

We wouldn't know who she was because she wouldn't have gotten any well known roles and would not be famous.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
9. TELL IT. And if she was a young black woman in Hollywood who was as average looking as Jennifer L
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 08:40 PM
Jan 2016

They wouldn't even allow her onto the damn set. She'd be the caterer's assistant.

I've seen Jennifer Lawrence in a few movies, Hunger Games, X-Men etc. and every time I see her I just think "I just cannot understand the hype surrounding this woman. I simply do NOT get it." And I actually think she's fairly likable as an actress.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
7. I think it would be a good idea
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 07:40 PM
Jan 2016

for filmmakers to look at the demographics of the country as a whole and then look at the way they cast their films and then try to make them reflect that reality a bit more closely. They will try to say, oh well white men is what sells, but the reality is, we never get offered anything else, so who really knows.

I read the other day that women are only represented 30% of the time on screen. Black women? 1% according to this article.

Is there a group that does a score card or grade on media bias? So we can know which studios, networks, etc. are at least trying to get it right?

An example, I was joking the other day with someone about where all the brown people go in the dystopian future. Was there a genocide that we were not informed about? Because it seems like the future got really white after The Matrix. The Hunger Games at least tried a little bit. But not enough to cast a POC in a lead role. Divergent was particularly bad. It would be good to know if there was a pattern with some studios doing better at casting diversity than others.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
8. even in movies which are supposed to be about non whites mostly
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 08:02 PM
Jan 2016

They stl usually want some white character to get some focus and used in advertising.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
10. Filmmakers, tv producers, magazine editors, authors/novelists
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 08:46 PM
Jan 2016

All of these people would do well to have a look at the demographics in this country and try to figure out why so little of actual America is reflected in American media.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
11. It seems common sense to me to just check the numbers.
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 10:04 PM
Jan 2016

Nearly all white entertainment types claim to be liberal and anti-racism. Seems like there would be leverage to at least get a better balance of actors into the mix if it becomes obvious that their actions don't match their intensions.

My 10 year old questioned me about implicit media bias the other day. He said, This comic book I saw has all white superheroes but over half the bad guys are black. That's implicit bias, right? Yep, you got it, Kid. My 10 year old can sort it out. So seems to me that grown professionals could buy a clue as well.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
12. Your ten year old is brilliant. There are people five times his age that act like they can't see
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 10:13 PM
Jan 2016

what's right in front of their faces.

The "good" guys are always white (and typically blue eyed and/or blonde) the bad guys are always dark or if they are white, they are usually dark haired/eyed (though Rowling changed that a bit with the blonde/blue eyed Malfoys in Harry Potter and we had the pale/blue eyed Orc in The Hobbit movies. Though having said that, the Malfoys did eventually become better and the pale Orc was known far and wide for his intelligence and capabilities.). The "beauty" of every book/tv show/movie etc. is far too often a blonde white woman, regardless of whether she's actually beautiful or not.

It is insane. It is also damaging, insidious and flat out BORING. We are missing and have missed so many rich, fascinating, life affirming stories just because the majority of the characters in the story weren't white. Like J17 already noted, even in stories about minority cultures, white Hollywood has always dictated that white characters be the central and most prominent ones.

This does nothing but cause white people to SERIOUSLY overvalue their own intelligence/beauty/superiority while diminishing everyone else. And in fact, when people go out of their way to make people feel that their stories/history/culture aren't important because of their skin color, all of us as a people are actually diminished and deprived.

wildeyed

(11,243 posts)
13. Well, he is brilliant,
Sat Jan 2, 2016, 11:02 PM
Jan 2016

that much is true

And you are so right about the insidious, insipid whiteness of the media. They force the skinny white standard of female beauty down our throats until we all want to vomit. And it hurts white women too, and most don't even understand. Some that I know actually make themselves vomit to try to better resemble this toxic, unattainable standard. We are all being sold a bill of goods.

The African American experience is fundamental to this country, to understanding our history and to our culture AS A WHOLE. I guess white people think if they ignore and deny it, they can escape the painful parts, but they are missing a whole bunch of glory too. It is hard to explain, but as a white person seeing that beauty, it just makes me more whole and more American. It does not diminish. It is not a zero/sum game at all.

And the movie and media people need to get with the program already. Some of us are past ready to see these stories told. We are tapping our feet and looking at our watches already. The rest can be led. People are much more open to narrative, to pictures, than they are to fact based arguments anyway. Once they see the stories, I believe they can begin to accept them.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
14. I absolutely could not agree with you more.
Sun Jan 3, 2016, 02:23 AM
Jan 2016

There is a saying that says something like "hate is like ingesting poison and expecting someone else to die." That's exactly how I feel racism is.

Racism not only negatively affects those who are on the bottom, but like you said, even those who fit the "mainstream" can be affected. Having underfed blondes shoved in everybody's throat as the "beauty standard" affects EVERYONE and I genuinely believe that even includes other underfed blondes who then feel forced to do whatever it takes to continuously comply with the narrow, idiotic "beauty standard" that they are currently in compliance with.

When the stories of Americans of color are continuously ignored, it affects EVERYONE including those who think they are benefiting. I love what you say here:

but as a white person seeing that beauty, it just makes me more whole and more American. It does not diminish. It is not a zero/sum game at all.

I understand exactly what you're saying. It's like for me, seeing so much more of the world has made me appreciate so much more what it means to be an American, to be a black American. I've never been a shrinking violet anyway but seeing how respected and damn near revered black Americans are all over the world makes me hold my head up higher and me even more confident. Exposure to lots of different cultures, religions, and types of people causes the most profound personal growth and I am always astounded that so many people are so terrified of people who are different from them. It is such a loss and a shame.

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