it is an AMERICAN problem and it is long past time that white americans take responsibility for benefiting from its perpetuation. zimmerman is but one example.

I was a bit unsure as to post this article on here, but, I went ahead, because I have faith with my DU sisters and brothers of all ethnicities to read this article and "GET IT".

as for "getting it" that's very doubtful. many would prefer to argue about what writer wrote than truly understand or accept it.

But I was disturbed/confused by a few things about Obama's speech and I think it parallels to this article somewhat

But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.

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And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away.

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And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida.

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And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

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And so the fact that sometimes that's unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent — using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there's no context for it and that context is being denied.

I don't know. Isn't everyone with a brain frustrated, white people included? Why is Obama making excuses for black people being angry about this situation and this trial? Isn't he perpetuating a social myth of them being "frustrated" victims that do not think entirely rational because of their history of victimization? Shouldn't everyone be frustrated? Why does this fully matter in terms of justice not being served, as it was not?

Maybe I hear things differently but the entire time Obama was talking about this it seems like he was telling white people why black people are angry, and almost apologizing for them making a "big deal" out of this trial.

Im white. Im pretty pissed about the entire matter. Maybe I misunderstood Obama. I didn't think Obama had to spell this out; its his right to, don't get me wrong. I didn't think he had to explain "frustration", and attribute it solely to black people (thinking people are frustrated...this case isn't about black people having a "special" perception of these events which pretty objectively shows a racists murderer was freed due to racists on the jury). Someone talk me down here, but it just seems a bit like he was apologizing for a group that he didn't need to so us white folk wouldn't be annoyed anymore

what that conversation about race would sound like. There have been so many opportunities, but it just never seems to happen.

One of my Facebook friends dredged up a case from a number of years ago--the Newsom/Christian murders. It was truly a horrendous crime, involving rape, sexual mutilation, torture, and murder. Anyway, this person was wondering why the Martin murder made headlines, while the other crime hasn't really been heard of, outside of the local area in which it occurred. I understand that the difference is that the perpetrators were arrested, tried, convicted, and sentenced to about as harsh a punishment as the justice system can mete out, while in the Zimmerman case, it took a LOT of public pressure, including commentary by President Obama, to even bring charges.

On the other hand, I also understand the fear of the "other," that white people experience. I'm sure that Chris Newsom and Channon Christian never thought that anyone could be so heartless and inhuman. Or that the mom of the 2-year old who was shot in the face by some very young teenagers would have thought that someone she just saw on the sidewalk while she was out for a walk with her child could murder him in such a cold-blooded manner.

So--I don't know how we can ever resolve these differences, and learn to trust each other.

that the prosecutor didn't want to file and that the prosecution resulted in acquittal mere coincidence? Or did the prosecutor know from experience prosecuting cases ,that his chance for successful prosecution was so low he should wait for a future slip by Zimmerman or new evidence coming to light...but alas, we'll never know if the prosecution with patience could have prevailed because the know-nothing public demanded a trial now..they wanted instant justice and got no justice..

But, nearly a year and a half elapsed between the crime and the trial. If there had been ANY more info or evidence, it certainly would have come out in the interim. It was probably a flimsy case, and the prosecutors knew it.

a scenario such as...the prosecution states it will not be prosecuting this case because of lack of evidence or whatever..Zimmerman relaxes a little more every day..now he's partying with someone and makes some dumb comments either racial slurs or admissions and suddenly a witness exists who may tip the scale..it happens and prosecutors and law enforcement play these cases often..revisiting them every year to see if anything has changed..this is how this may have gone if the public didn't demand instant justice..

Also, changes in technology and forensic science. It probably won't be too long before they will be able to definitively identify the screaming voice on the tape. Maybe technology will advance to be able to pick up DNA traces that are too miniscule to be detected with today's methods.

I know of a few murder cases that the police believe they know the answers to and cold case detectives revisit them regularly waiting for that break...sometimes they never come..other times this strategy works..

I have never understood "the fear of the "other," that white people experience". Can you explain? There's no widespread history of violence against whites in this country.

Having grown up with the Emmet Till tragedy, watching children attacked with hoses and dogs, black church bombings and burnings, and hearing whispers of lynchings and entire areas where blacks lived (Oklahoma/Florida) destroyed, I must say that I understand the fear that black/brown people experience.

Just as it's not the responsibility of the victim of a crime, to explain what's in the mind of the accused.

It might be better to ask those with that predjudice how they came to that conclusion. However, I'd surmise that once you get past the same old BS 'reasons' (violent, rap music, uneducated, etc...), you won't be able to make much sense of it anyway.

Edit: it is a valid question, it's just not one that WE can answer. It's not our perspective in question, it's theirs.

the insurmountable obstacles in the way of this prosecution..

black people completely understand the context of this latest murder. it is the same context that led to the murder of countless other black people in america. as the asshole in florida who shot a black man in the face said: "i only shot a n^&$A*%!" (see the story on another thread here). we are frustrated by a system that routinely excuses white people (or light-skinned latinos) for murdering black people, and we are frustrated by all the people who think that is not only normal, but the way it should be. we are frustrated by the fact that trayvon martin, the victim, was put on trial instead of zimmerman...or rather, his blackness was put on trial. and THAT is why zimmerman was acquitted. we are frustrated by a system that rewards murderers, like zimmerman, because of the color of the victim's skin. there is no confusion, and there is no incorrect interpretation: we absolutely understand america. perhaps more than any other ethnic group, because we have always been TARGETS in this brutal, ugly system. there IS perpetual victimization because that's how the system was designed, and unfortunately, it still continues. trayvon's murder just opened up a deep, ugly wound.

Thanks for sharing this!

Is it okay for me to post here?

When are we going to have a 'town hall on racism' where white people discuss how they will speak to their children to make sure another George Zimmerman does not walk among us?"

Because this just can't be on "us." Black people are not the ones that created this cancer and unendingly benefit from it.

The absurdity of racism is killing us. It's about time we expose it. What the hell do we have to lose? Everyone is hiding in the shadows, tip-toeing, afraid to point the finger, having private conversations about racism. Feeling defeated that "they'll never get it". Well, how are they going to get it if we don't call it what it is?

As long as people consider being CALLED a racist a thousand times worse than actually BEING a freaking racist, we will never talk about it. We will never call it for what it is because ears and minds will be automatically shut. And really, ain't that the damn point??

I kind of asked this question of a troll bully the other day - AFTER he made clear he had learned nothing at all.

AFTER he made clear he had learned nothing at all.

I suspect that is more true than even the idiot himself fully realized.

and it's a benefit that even some people who think they are not racist perpetuate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/race-shapes-zimmerman-verdict-reaction/2013/07/22/3569662c-f2fc-11e2-8505-bf6f231e77b4_story.html

Most of it is a no brainer. Blacks strongly disapprove of the verdict 89%, whites approve of the verdict 51%.

What was interesting was two things:

1) Hispanics DISAPPROVED of the verdict by 60%. Considering that Zim was half-Hispanic, if that shouldn't give the average white person who thinks this was a good thing pause, I don't know what will.

2) the number of blacks who want to have the dreaded Race Conversation was super high.



And who benefits most from racism? Who benefits most from putting our heads in the sand and pretending that all is well? The same folks running for their lives to NOT have the conversation. THIS is why I swear to God it feels that this shit is never, EVER going to change. As long as white people control the conversation, being CALLED a racist will continue to be 100 times worse than actually BEING a racist.

right here in this thread.

Are the only racists is a good start. Saw a lot of other than white racism when I was married to my hispanic ex.

It is everywhere, like roaches, and next to impossile to iraducate.

when black people are able to murder people and have half the country claim they are heroes...we can talk. until then. we are talking about apples and oranges. you are talking about individual racism and i am talking about systemic racism. this is a BIG reason why this discussion goes nowhere. non-whites understand the systemic nature of american racism, and white people don't...or choose not to grasp the concept.

when black people are able to murder people and have half the country claim they are heroes...we can talk.

Killed it in the FIRST LINE!!!

of stupid shit in so many of these discussions, white people are like third graders while black people are like Phd's. how can we even have a discussion when you ARE NOT INTELLECTUALLY EQUIPPED FOR THE DISCUSSION?

The reason townhall-type discussions of race don't happen or go nowhere is:

White people are afraid that the black people might get nasty to them ....

and there is no penalty for whites for not participating. There is nothing they can lose by not participating.

The whites that do end up in these townhall meetings are generally not the ones that need to be there. What works better, IMHO, are compulsory diversity programs, done well, in places of employment. One such program was done at my employment site.

Most white Americans have little knowledge of the specifics of the history of how we got where we are with race relations.

just wrote a post about the how the knowledge gap dooms these discussions. and it is the simple things, like willful ignorance about the difference between individual racism and systemic racism that doom conversations before they can begin.

Because I would really like some explanations. I'm not doing the dirty work anymore.

power to do the right thing no matter how B37 interpreted the law (which did contribute some). Hell, if only one juror held out a few days, it could have been hung jury. It was 3 to 3 for conviction to start, what caused it to swing to not guilty?

I hope to hear from other jurors. People deserve to hear their story/excuse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023339659

Maddy - B39. Guess she is of Puerto Rican heritage. Tonight on ABC Nightly News, Nightline, and GMA tomorrow.

though I kind of disagree that President Obama's casting the discussion as "Black folks as victim" is a negative. The Fact is, Black folks ARE/Have been victimized by white racism and, in this instance, I do not think his audience was Black folks.

I saw his speech as a "white folks we are here, where are you?" message ... which is exactly the message that white folks need to ponder.

Black folks cannot solve white racism; but white folks cannot address their racism until they are willing to see Black folks as how they see us ... in the quiet of their rooms.

President Obama accomplished that ... as evidenced by:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023320329

Do you think white folks are ready to hear any other kind of message?

people here still 'don't get it'.

You have no opinion on the verdict?

My fellow brother and sisters I would strongly advise you to NOT read the comments surrounding this article on the above-mentioned website - http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/black-folks-its-time-to-stop-taking-care-of-white-people.

The majority of the comments are from racist people and every time that a Black poster posts his or her comment to defend their race, they remove their comments. Basically, they're taking down Black people's posts and keeping all of the hateful and racist anti-Black posts on that website.

I just thought I'd let all of you know because it's very disgusting what they are doing on that website. Just read all of the hateful comments.

Welcome to DU - where most of the time your comments will stand and in this protected group - idiocy gets hidden.

I say some are Closet Racists. Others are in Denial. They will swear up and down and refuse to admit the truth. Having a Black man in the White House has brought out racism in many many people.

As a white liberal, I'd like to believe that I'm not a racist. But I was forced to question my own thoughts and reaction to having a black boss.

Let me explain...

I worked for Digital Equipment Corporation from 1986 until 2000. DEC was a great company with a robust affirmative action program. People of color were in leadership positions throughout the company.

My own group came under the leadership of a black engineer in 1994. I remember thinking firstly, that it was a good choice. Everyone respected Cliff as a good engineer and an excellent mediator. But what struck me was my feeling that this was an impressive achievement for a black man. This was quickly followed by introspection as to why I should feel any kind of special respect or pride for Cliff.

Then I realized that I had fallen into the trap of low expectations for blacks. It was no big deal to see persons of Indian, Pakistani, or Asian origin in leadership positions. Why should I feel that Cliff was something special? I had to confront my own deeply held thought patterns that were holding me hostage to this particular belief, that it was special or unusual for a black man to rise to a position of leadership. I realized that I was indeed a racist, even though I both externally and internally supported Cliff's promotion.

As for Cliff, well, he turned out to be one of the best bosses I ever had. We discussed race in a few of our one-on-one meetings, and I learned a lot from him. He was a great man, and sadly, came down with bone cancer in 1998. He worked right up until the week before he died and he kept his condition to himself. In July of that year my appendix ruptured and I almost died. One of our last conversations was with both of us in our hospital beds. Cliff had called to wish me well, but also to ominously tell me that he would probably not be returning to work and would need me to step up. He died while I was still in the hospital, and I never made it to his funeral, which I deeply regretted.

What did I take away from this? That even well-meaning white people can fall victim to their own deeply held beliefs that blacks are somehow inferior. I'm watchful of this now. It's not something that one can completely turn off (I felt a similar response when Barack Obama was elected POTUS), but recognizing it is a first step towards making sure that it isn't passed down to our children.

I think the best thing we whites can do is to try to break the cycle. My dad wasn't an overt racist, but his attitudes and comments must have rubbed off in me in some way. He'd snicker at racist jokes and I do believe this is picked up by children and thus passed down from generation to generation. As for my son, he is completely color-blind. His little crew includes kids of African descent. Shit, they even have one guy who came out as gay and they accept him like a brother. I think in another hundred or two hundred years we may be a truly color-blind society.

society". Primarily because we know that no such thing will ever exist.

I'd like to see everyone treated without regard to their skin color and appearance, but there's nothing wrong with being aware of one's history and taking pride in that history as one sees fit.

I had really hoped that the election of Mr. Obama would kind of turn a page for us, but it seems to have brought out the worst in so many people, mostly in those red states.

One thing I learned from working in a very culturally diverse high tech industry for 35 years is that just about everybody is interesting to me. Sharing those experiences creates lasting bonds.

I'd like to see everyone treated without regard to their skin color and appearance, but there's nothing wrong with being aware of one's history and taking pride in that history as one sees fit.

Exactly!

I don't know a single person of color that doesn't roll their eyes whenever someone white talks about being "color blind." It ain't gonna happen. EVER. And most of us wouldn't want it to.

See my color. I want you to see it! Because there is a shit load of history and culture that comes with it. But what I don't want is for someone to judge me or think that they automatically know me or what I'm about because of it.

in their genome. I guess no one ever told them that modern humans and their predecessors originated in Africa.

You can almost see them trying to wriggle out of their skin.

My grandparents came here from southern Italy, so I expect there's some strong Moorish influence in my background. One of these days when I have an extra hundred bucks to spare I'm going to send out for one of those DNA kits that trace your lineage based on your genome and known migration patterns. Should be interesting.

OK, peace my friend.