Richard, that is, not Aaron.

That being said, scoring with 23 seconds on the clock and the ball on your own 21 yard line is unpossible.

Michael Ola went down with a bad knee. At that point we no longer had the same offensive line that would have allowed Joique Bell to close out the game.

When Ola went down they stuck in LaAdrian Waddle who promptly made 2 penalties. Sad fact is that our offensive line isn't good enough; this has been shown many times.

So: "blew it"? Yes they did. But they had played well enough to win the game, and they had that taken away by an incorrect call that was honestly made but should have been reviewable because it changed the outcome of a game that was already over. A review would have turned that call around and the hail mary pass wouldn't have happened.

I think it's a fact of life for many teams in the NFL that you have to beat the other team and the zebras as well. The zebras are only human; that call should have been reviewable. This is on the NFL rules committee IMO.

The Lions owned the first half despite their scoreless second quarter, and were held to two field goals in the second half. Kudos to Green Bay's half-time adjustments.

Incidental face mask only applies to non-quarterbacks this season; touch a quarterback's face mask during the 2015 season, and the laundry will fly. That's a fact, Jack, and ALL the player know it.

why didn't they put the game out of reach in a response to a post where I attempted to answer that question. The best I can do for you is refer you to the post you just responded to.

Kudos to Green Bay indeed. One of my favorite teams.

Regarding the face mask rule: it's already been handled here, I have nothing to add.

What did the Lions do during their scoreless second quarter?

You were talking about closing out the game. Want to change the subject to the second quarter? No worries here.

You must understand, I'm aware of all the things the Lions should have done to win that game.

And you can even discount the fact that they still did enough to win, as they would have if not for that call.

And it is absolutely true that they SEVERELY screwed up on the hail mary. Good grief.

The bottom line question has become: shouldn't a call like that be reviewable? I say yes. There has been little enough joy for Lions fans this year. When they actually win a game and have it taken by a mistaken call, when it effectively ends the possibilities of making the playoffs, it is a bitter disappointment.

And I showed that disappointment on that day.

And now people are asking me why I don't get over it? Who's starting new posts about it? Not me.

If I visit this forum and see posts about it I'm glad to join in discussing it, because I think there should be a change in the rules and I'm not alone in this. Several other posters in the forum agree.

Here's a shock for you: I am now GLAD it happened because it's more likely Caldwell will be fired. That hail mare is on him IMO. And the bad call not being reviewable is on the NFL.

Your opinion may differ.

outcome of games, or do you think the teams deserve all the blame for allowing themselves to be in a position where a blown call can screw them?

more than a call earlier in the game. It's more noticeable, but not inherently more important.

The less time a team has left to overcome it, and may affect the subsequent decisions made. For example, if the "facemask" from Thursday occurred in the first quarter. I guarantee the next play would NOT have been a Hail Mary. That call, if made correctly, would have inarguably changed the outcome of the game. Another bad call 40 minutes earlier would always be debatable since there was so much time left to make up for it.

If referees are blowing calls that clearly change the outcome of the game, do you think that's a big problem?

They wouldn't have been in that situation. It's easy to blame the refs, but it's inaccurate because it takes the onus off of the players and coaches. Whining about officiating is silly and pointless.

Concern and something the NFL should be actively working on fixing, then? You don't think that one bad call can be responsible for the outcome of a game?

the whole question would have been moot. As is your spurious argument.

It is 'easy to blame the refs' but the fact is that the call was wrong. Any call that changes the outcome of the game at the end should be reviewable, just like every single touchdown is.

Calling it whining is, to put it mildly, incorrect. You can have good manners or bad manners, the option is yours.

Lions were rushing only three in their "prevent." Packers have a banged-up O-line. Why Detroit didn't capitalize on that mystifies. They should have been smashing Rodgers.

Is this an issue the NFL needs to make a serious effort to try to fix? Or should it just be chalked up to human error and "shit happens"?

Perhaps the problem is not the officating but the too many rules, or rather nuanced rules, that make officiating at such a high speed of play hit or miss. It's easy for us to second guess a facemask or hold in slow motion but it's a lot harder at game speed. How do you address this -- change the rules or allow every play to be reviewable?

Two things to address the issue?

one they're willing to accept.

I expect fouls like facemasks and helmut-to-helmut hits that "protect" players to remain judgment calls -- I doubt they'd ever be subject to review. They can try to tighten rules explanation and train officials better. Maybe that would help.

BTW, try to find a team sport where human error officiating isn't controversial or subjective. Baseball, especially the strike zone? Basketball? It's part of sports.

instant replay and even rating umpires ball/strike calls based on a quest tec system. The issue isn't really judgement calls, though. It's those situations where a bad call is made, and after the instant replay is shown, everyone knows that it's wrong, and they the don't do anything about it. Yes, holding or pass interference may be a judgement call, but if you have definitive proof that two players never made contact (for example), it's kind of a farce when the "call stands" because it's not reviewable and everyone watching knows it's wrong within 5 seconds of it happening. That sort of situation is easily fixable, and yet they're not fixing it.

But the truth is you can't expect every play to be reviewable. Not under the current review system, at least. Game pacing would be ruined.

Maybe there's two or three booth officials who can override a call? Maybe they have 24 seconds (play clock time) to warrant further review? Whatever ... expect that any change would have to be okay with the Referees' Union (NFLRA), and wouldn't lengthen average game time either. TV likes a tidy schedule.

except, I guess, the ones that aren't reviewable. But they have the replay refs watching from the booth, those refs knew the call was blown, and were powerless to do anything about it. It's an easily fixable issue for certain situations, and yet they're not fixing it. It could be because they're concerned with the NFLRA. It could be because they're concerned with the pace of the game or average game length. It could certainly be described as an issue that impacts the "integrity of the game", but in this case, that doesn't seem to be their big concern.

is every reason not to rely on "prevent" style of defenses to win games, especially against teams with Aaron Rodgers at QB. Detroit took the game out of their hands and into the officials' when they gave up their pass rush.

shouldn't it be a big concern? They have to the tools in place already to resolve at least the most egregious of issues, but they're not using them, and don't seem to have any intention to use them.

The refs made a wrong call but it was honestly made. It should have been reviewable. An incorrect call that changes the outcome of the game at the end is wrong. The Lions did plenty of things wrong. So Fucking What. They played well enough to win the game. An incorrect call allowed the game to go on. That's not right. Describing this as 'whining' is very bad manners IMO.

Your question is fair, however; how would I address this? I would change the rules. Too many rules? No.

all the players gather around and shake hands. They are a community. This is known as sportsmanship. And I consider it good manners as well. They don't taunt each other after the game. This is good manners.

Showing me a fainting couch is something that could be interpreted as bad manners.

If I was rough on you, I apologize. I was quite upset at the time.

However this has delineated a serious problem with the NFL rules. No need to devolve the discussion at this point unless one has hurt feelings.

If I have hurt your feelings, please accept my apologies. Any fencing or arguing with you would be a waste of time at this point, don't you think?

I have just demonstrated why good manners are appropriate in a sports forum. Have a good day.

Smack talk is part of the culture in sports and it's no different here.

Please don't come into this group and state that we should have errrrr good manners to discuss.

Jesus Christ---every football fan in this group has a team that got fucked with a bad call. We whine for one post and then let it go.

The refs suck this year for everyone. Your team is 4 and fucking 8..... trust me---it ain't the refs fault.

A quick scan will show you that I no longer blame the refs.

Good manners are optional; if you wish to be offensive that is beyond my control. I merely point them out.

You obviously were hurt by my previous comments. I apologized for that.

As for letting it go: is it not you that is continuing this?

I will continue to advocate for better rules in the NFL. Hopefully you won't mind.

Although my buds in this group are most likely getting a chuckle.

Bad call on your part---maybe I'll be hurt for the next week.

Can't say where I got that impression.

I have moved on; hopefully you can do so.

Well it looks like you're ok. Are we done here, or do you want to crush me with some stinging rejoinders and ROFL smileys?

Who knew!!

You know, I used to dislike trumad, but now that I know the truth, she's kind of hot! Is it just me?

Bad manners, indeed!

Happy now?

Apparently they are a newbie to this group!!

Well then, please proceed.

And have a nice day.

Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2019, 08:04 PM - Edit history (9)

But even "touching" the mask would require intent to do so: it looked more to me like the defender's thumb brushed over the bottom of the face mask as he grabbed for Rogers' shoulder pad.

I once saw a video of a baseball player tripping over first base, and instinctively throwing his arms forward to break his fall. Unfortunately they landed on an umpire, who instantly ejected him for "touching the blue suit." Fortunately, upon further review, the front office decided that the contact had indeed been completely incidental and expunged the incident from the baseball player's record.

Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2019, 08:28 PM - Edit history (4)

not his face mask.

So they did blow the call -- though I completely agree with KamaAina about Detroit's terrible defense of the Rodgers' Hail Mary pass. And it certainly isn't anyone's fault that the play wasn't reviewable.

Thanks!


rocktivity

and the reason I agree is that I saw it in slow motion. Now fast motion---it absolutely looked like he grabbed the Facemask.

The dude is whining because the play could not be reviewed. Tough shit.

I didn't realize how mad you were.

I just hate fans moaning about calls a week after the call.

But since that's not what I'm doing, I can't say who you're referring to.

All I'm doing is respond to posts. Would you like me to not respond?

They all need to be rounded up, placed on a boat, brought out to sea, and then sunk."

Welcome to the Sports Group!!

I'm not new to the group. Don't be mad.

BTW, the screen name came after John Kerry was swiftboated back in 2004.

If I was basing my screen name after Kerry got slandered by the swift boat liars, it would be something more colorful than the word 'mad'. Those bastards helped Bu$h to steal an election. Ehhh I won't get started.

btw Maryland's a very beautiful state. My brother lives in Bethesda.

Though I am no longer in Maryland, I lived just north of there in Howard County.

GO PACK GO