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How is this a catch? (Original Post) Yavin4 Dec 2017 OP
Good question PJMcK Dec 2017 #1
Like a lot of youtube videos these days, you can't embed it you have to watch it on youtube. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2017 #3
Here it is. Not a catch. The ball hit the ground first without his hand or arm underneath it. brush Dec 2017 #12
Looked like a touchdown to me. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2017 #2
He doesn't control the ball through the ground. n/t Yavin4 Dec 2017 #4
He doesn't have to. Once it's a touchdown the play is over. n/t PoliticAverse Dec 2017 #5
Nope. That's not the rule. Yavin4 Dec 2017 #6
Here: flotsam Dec 2017 #8
He still has to control the ball all the way to the ground. He didn't. The ball hit the ground first brush Dec 2017 #11
You're wrong. According to the non-catch yesterday in the Pats v Steerlers game... brush Dec 2017 #7
See my post above flotsam Dec 2017 #10
The Pats receiver is also going to the ground. n/t Yavin4 Dec 2017 #14
No flotsam Dec 2017 #18
That does not matter. He still goes to the ground. Yavin4 Dec 2017 #19
Okay I understand where we differ flotsam Dec 2017 #20
"maintain possession through the process of going to the ground. Simple. " Yavin4 Dec 2017 #22
Not a catch. brush Dec 2017 #15
So when they made the same call against the Vikings Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2017 #21
Did I stutter? When Pats are involved, the league seems to always rule in their favor. brush Dec 2017 #26
No, you just made a poor argument. Cuthbert Allgood Dec 2017 #27
Think what you want. I remember the tuck rule game. Too often the league rules in favor of the Pats brush Dec 2017 #28
Exactly. The tuck rule was a rule they made up on the spot and then had to scramble to get it into hughee99 Dec 2017 #30
Key words, "If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass..." JayhawkSD Dec 2017 #13
I agree. That should've been a touchdown yesterday. If that wasn't a touchdown, then... brush Dec 2017 #16
Many rules flotsam Dec 2017 #17
Right. It should've been ruled a catch. But it's the Pats. The NFL always rules in their favor. brush Dec 2017 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Nitram Dec 2017 #23
Yes. He lost control of the ball when he hits the ground. Yavin4 Dec 2017 #24
On checking the video again I see that you are right. He didn't have control of the ball. Nitram Dec 2017 #25
Yea, right. The league is in with Kraft to give the Pats all the breaks. chelsea0011 Dec 2017 #29

brush

(53,787 posts)
12. Here it is. Not a catch. The ball hit the ground first without his hand or arm underneath it.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:25 AM
Dec 2017
&feature=player_embedded

It's the hated Pats though who the NFL always rules in their favor for.

Yavin4

(35,441 posts)
6. Nope. That's not the rule.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:09 AM
Dec 2017

You have to control the ball to the ground. See the Pittsburgh game on Sunday.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
8. Here:
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:19 AM
Dec 2017

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

In this case, the reception is made and he touches his feet in bounds-touchdown at that point. If instead it was a diving catch it should be ruled incomplete. The difference is he scored BEFORE falling down

brush

(53,787 posts)
11. He still has to control the ball all the way to the ground. He didn't. The ball hit the ground first
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:23 AM
Dec 2017
&feature=player_embedded

brush

(53,787 posts)
7. You're wrong. According to the non-catch yesterday in the Pats v Steerlers game...
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:18 AM
Dec 2017

you have to control the ball all the way to the ground.

Here's the video from YouTube. At the very end of the video, it shows that the receiver, who did get both feet down in-bounds, didn't control the ball all the way to the ground as the ball hit the ground first when he came down. Neither his hand nor an arm was under the ball so it shouldn't have been ruled a catch.

But as I commented on another thread today about the nullified Steelers' touchdown catch from yesterday's game, the NFL always rules for the Pats in murky rules situations in games — just as they did in the most famous, err ahh, infamous one of all — the Tuck Rule game against the Raiders years ago.

Take a look at the last few seconds of the video:

&feature=player_embedded

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
10. See my post above
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:22 AM
Dec 2017

The difference was that in Sunday's game the player was going to the ground. In the OP's example the receiver catches and makes a toe-tap to score a touchdown prior to falling. Different situation and different rules.

Yavin4

(35,441 posts)
19. That does not matter. He still goes to the ground.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 02:32 AM
Dec 2017

You have to complete the catch through the ground.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
20. Okay I understand where we differ
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 03:47 AM
Dec 2017

I will give you a clip and a link:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player executes a three-step process:

secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground;
and touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands;
and maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has clearly become a runner (see 3-2-7 Item 2).
An additional item makes it clear that if a receiver is going to the ground in the act of completing a catch, he must maintain possession even after he has gone to the ground. This isn't a separate rule, as some have painted it. On the contrary, it makes clear that even when going to the ground the receiver must possess the ball for a period of time.

Simple. Want to complete a catch? Maintain possession and become a runner, or maintain possession through the process of going to the ground. Simple.

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/12/9/9867846/nfl-catch-rule-smart-explained

Yavin4

(35,441 posts)
22. "maintain possession through the process of going to the ground. Simple. "
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 10:29 AM
Dec 2017

Exactly. Cooks did not "maintain possession through the process of going to the ground" As he went to the ground, he lost control of the ball.

brush

(53,787 posts)
15. Not a catch.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:28 AM
Dec 2017

The receiver still has to control the ball to complete the catch.

Dispute it all you want but that player didn't.

NFL always rules for the Pats.

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,921 posts)
21. So when they made the same call against the Vikings
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 09:48 AM
Dec 2017

is the logic that they always rule for the Panthers?

Cuthbert Allgood

(4,921 posts)
27. No, you just made a poor argument.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 12:26 PM
Dec 2017

I week earlier, with the top team in the NFC at that point, they ruled exactly the same way and that would have likely resulted in the Vikings beating the Panthers. Nobody lost their shit then and claimed the refs always favor the Panthers. Just because this EXACT SAME CALL was made and it involved the Patriots doesn't mean they favor the Patriots. It means they have a shitty rule they need to revisit.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
30. Exactly. The tuck rule was a rule they made up on the spot and then had to scramble to get it into
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 07:02 PM
Dec 2017

the rulebook before anyone noticed. It wasn't like it was put into the rulebook in 1999, and certainly it wasn't used AGAINST the Patriots in week 2 of that very same season when Vinny Testaverde's Jets had the same thing happen to him and the Jets got to keep the ball.



The correct application of that rule should have been to call it in week 2 and ignore it in the playoffs. That's a "regular season only" rule.
 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
13. Key words, "If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass..."
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:25 AM
Dec 2017

In the Steelers game Jesse James did not go to the ground in the act of catching the pass. He caught the pass, went to his knees, turned and reached the ball across the goal line, and went to the ground as a result of reaching the ball across the goal line. Whether or not the ball "survived contact with the ground" was utterly irrelevant.

brush

(53,787 posts)
16. I agree. That should've been a touchdown yesterday. If that wasn't a touchdown, then...
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:30 AM
Dec 2017

the one from the OP should've have been a TD as the ball hit the ground first without a hand or arm underneath it.

Different rules for the Pats though.

flotsam

(3,268 posts)
17. Many rules
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:36 AM
Dec 2017

A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and
touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and
maintains control of the ball after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, until he has the ball long enough to clearly become a runner. A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps (see 3-2-7-Item 2).

On your knees you are going to the ground because you cannot clearly become a runner. He could have covered the ball and been secure on the half yard line but instead reached across the goal line continued to the ground and failed to control the ball

brush

(53,787 posts)
9. Right. It should've been ruled a catch. But it's the Pats. The NFL always rules in their favor.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:20 AM
Dec 2017

Response to Yavin4 (Original post)

Yavin4

(35,441 posts)
24. Yes. He lost control of the ball when he hits the ground.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 10:44 AM
Dec 2017

But it's the Pats so it's a touchdown.

Nitram

(22,813 posts)
25. On checking the video again I see that you are right. He didn't have control of the ball.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 10:48 AM
Dec 2017

I missed that the first 6 times I watched it.

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