It was only the women that are at fault? Yeah, right.

Could be they did this on purpose. Time may tell us but.....

as a legitimate way to remove demons and demonstrate "god's power", there is little defense that religion played no role.

as a legitimate way to remove demons and demonstrate "god's power", there is little defense that religion played no role.

Thats the take-away.

Most likely picked up through their religious beliefs, and it's acceptance by the largest sect of Christianity as real and valid.

Are you still not in agreement that religion played a role in this?

determine if it was the only factor.

Of that there is no doubt.

These children are dead because of belief in the validity of a religious ritual.

It was mental illness. It was religious delusion. Combining those two had deadly results. Again.

You keep moving them further back with each post.

Thats a simple question.

It would make sense, considering today's developments, that they would employ an insanity defense.

There may be additional info I don't recall or have read on that particular subject.

Are you saying it may have been something else entirely? What?

You are making assumptions that we don't know to be fact. You maybe right but that has to be determined.

You wouldn't believe in any of it.

I guess I just don't see what other cause there could be. Do you?

And your your information I do ask plenty of questions of my faith.

To say that those are not important factors as to why this happened is pure denial.

And I added some additional info regarding how the RCC feels about exorcisms.

you claim not to be sure: that question was, however, resolved in the January thread that I just linked upthread in my post #26, to which you are here responding

As you posted extensively in that thread, I thought you might have actually read the posts in it

that the women involved in this case had no definite recent association with Catholicism, or that the churches with which they were associated did not discuss any exorcisms with them, or that (in fact) both had actually stopped attending there most recent church -- all of which was laid out in the January thread thread and links contained there

Really? Do go on, Dr. s4p.

It seems you want to rehash that old thread. This is a new OP with a new story. If you want to discuss THIS thread, please do.

a link indicating religious delusions can occur without religiosity

1) They were citing religious concepts. That is the important thing.

2) Your distinction raises another problem too. Do you want to suggest that THEIR religion was not truly "religious" - as opposed to others who have "real" religion?

there is no need to actually read material and respond to it: one simply makes simplistic insulting comments and hopes for a reaction

It occurs on all internet boards, so far as I can tell, and DU seems not to be immune to the phenomenon

Clearly religion played an extremely important role here.

it may be a mental issue or premeditated.

Or this exorcism may have come from earlier general religious history. Where exorcisms could be fatal, or a prelude to execution.

Or possibly it was the Catholic Church's recent re-embrace of exorcism, that inspired this variation on Church doctrine.

In any case, religious concepts seem central here.

Mental issues may be intermixed. But the religious element is crystal clear.

Or 2) there are so many bad things in religion, that finally even the "good" things are probably contaminated. Or are drowned out.

These are isolated incidents that are more likely the results of mental illness or premeditation.

Christianity doesn't help people, Christians do; etc.

Not sure if they are mentally ill or low functioning and gullible.

religious brainwashing

that you might not mean to.

If by having a general belief (religion) one is responsible for all that is done in the name of that, you open the door to a world of mayhem.

AKA, The Soviet Union was Atheist>therefore all the people killed by Stalin were killed because of Atheism.

Now I disagree with that (as marx would puke if he knew what Stalin did), but you are opening the door to big leaps.

murder was an appropriate instrument of social policy, you might have a point.

The point is that if you start saying one part speaks for the whole, you open doors up for error.

No,the Soviet Union did not speak for all atheists. To be frank, they did not even speak for all Marxists.

But Stalin did need endorse mass murder as an "instrument of social policy", as did Che, as did Mao, all three of whom probably would have gotten a well-deserved beating by both Marx and Engels. And while the Marxism those three may not count as a textbook "religion", one can only see icons still hanging in their respective countries to know that they took on all the trapping of religion, at the very least. A rock may not be a hammer, but it will still smash skulls.

The point is, when someone says all religion, all atheism, or for that matter, all soups are bad, the door is open for error, and it is one I would hope the OP did not want to make.

When the Catholic Church teaches that demonic possession is real, that reflects directly on the Roman Catholic religion. If an officially Catholic state, for example Ireland, acts in ways we find unacceptable, that only reflects back onto the RCC if there is a direct connection, for example if Ireland worked with the RCC to enslave women in the Magdelene Laundries, which they did.

Indict Marxist Leninist idiocy all you want, they are guilty as hell, but until you can link the teachings and policies of atheism, and good luck with that effort, to the teachings and policies of Marxist Leninist regimes, your "door" remains shut.

to support your bigotry toward people of faith, as well as those with mental illness. Nothing like blurring those lines, is there, to start the week off?

for the people who act on those beliefs?

Individuals are responsible for their actions, not abstract concepts.
The concept of demonic possession is not unique to religion. One certainly doesn't have to believe in any deity to be convinced that demons exist.
The mischievous imps are all over the place.

That's some bullshit that we need to stop right there. Absent that belief, there really wouldn't be a need to expel those demons via any means, would there.

And who are we who have to stop it? Because most religions talk about demons doesn't mean they don't exist. Anyone who has ever visited or worked on psych ward is familiar with these rascals, not to mention a few internet blogs.

And your defensive reaction to these threads is now very understandable.

a supposed atheist.

Zow-wee! Worth a bookmark for sure.

Not believing in an almighty creator does not preclude the existence of the human soul, or the spirit world. Being an atheist does not require closing one's mind to spheres of existence beyond what we immediately perceive, or what is currently accepted in the scientific world.
I don't need a religion to convince me of the existence of the human soul and I don't need the purists of atheism to approve my beliefs.

sorry, but I find your "I'm an atheist" line as bullshitty as another poster here's "Gotcha! I'm an agnostic" line.

I'm definitely not one of the intolerant religion hating atheists. I just don't believe in any god(s).
What kind of atheist are you?

One of the "Thank god (or demons) I'm not like all you other atheists" atheists.

You see, most of us are tolerant, open-minded folk who don't go around baiting believers and mocking fellow atheists who don't fit your definition of the "good atheist"..
Most of us are not like you SS. You are part of a very tiny, yet very shrill minority, who contribute little to a better understanding between believers and non-believers.

that you're all about tolerance and understanding, and that you would never bait or mock or insult anyone.

What's wrong with that? Who did I mock or insult? You know where the alert button is. Of course you do.
Why do you defend such obviously bigoted posts like the OP. Do you think RELIGION KILLED THOSE KIDS?

Yin and yang and so on.

never once have I encountered an atheist who thought demonic possession was anything except ridiculous superstitious bullshit. You stepped all over your preposterous story with that post.

I doubt any frequent atheist blogs. I certainly don't. I doubt most atheists are closed minded. Not in my experience, barring a handful who post flame bait around here. Maybe that's what you enjoy, but you are part of the fringe.

unfortunately you messed it up with your demons are real nonsense. Keep at it. It is amusing.

Dawkins knows there are enough of the little rascals around here.
I think we kicked some demonic butt today. Very gratifying

Last edited Tue Mar 18, 2014, 06:11 AM - Edit history (1)

regards their personal experience as the final word on everything. But your little ivory tower world is really very small. "no one I know does/thinks that" is about the lamest argument out there.

My family is comprised of wonderful individuals, who all have different views and opinions on religion. We have friendly discussions and share our thoughts without prejudice. We do not speak with one voice, but I confess that we all share a commitment to tolerance and fighting bigotry, wherever we encounter it.
If you think that marching for civil rights and gay rights and reaching out to the underprivileged is living in an ivory tower, then you have a very distorted view of this world.

"No one I know does/thinks that" or "I've never seen/heard of that" as if either of those were evidence of anything. You're just the latest.

You sure are fast a loose with your absolutes SS.
I doubt I've ever said "Noone I know" in reference to anything, but apparently you interpret "Most of my friends" to include family and also to include anybody I've ever met. Do you actually read the drivel you post?
How's your family, btw?

as all the links you provided to back up your horseshit accusations of bigotry towards me. So you should have no trouble finding them.

You and your family have posted here abundantly, and with the same agenda and tactics, and those posts are open for comment, as is the agenda.

Is your life really so empty and meaningless that you can find nothing better to do than piss on fellow duers and their families?
What a great way to fight the evils of RW fundies.