for an atheist chaplain?

Christian ministers are ordained somewhere and usually have some sort of a degree. Rabbis went to rabbinical school. Muslims, Hidus and others have their own forms of "ordination."

But atheists? How do you decide one has qualifications?

At the moment, the military is overwhelmed with fundie chaplains because many mainstream churches are balking at the idea. But, every chaplain is taught, and under orders, to minister to every faith. Or no faith at all. That may not be true in all cases, but there should, at the least, be some serious training in how to minister to an atheist.

would be counselors.

When the horrors of combat become to much, that is who they can talk to who isn't religiously affiliated. When the stress of deployments, separation from family & loved ones, and work load become to much, that is who they can talk to who isn't religiously affiliated.

I do not see a need for 'chaplains' for atheists. Chaplains serve a purpose to provide both counsel AND religious perspective to those who seek it. Chaplains, no matter what the spiritual tradition, are trained to work with non-believers as well as believers of various faiths in that capacity as a counselor as well.

Atheism is without belief and without a core philosophy of life. Choosing to be a humanist or a Buddhist are options for atheists. I supposed there could be humanist chaplains, but again, as you ask, what will be the criteria for training?

You are correct that currently chaplains must be ordained and have attended a graduate program that meets DoE requirements for accreditation. Then they received specialized training in pastoral counseling. I have trained & supervised many chaplains as it is done through various psychology programs and internship sites around the US. Finally, once in the military, chaplains receive further specific military training to meet the needs of the armed services.

What would the graduate degree necessary be for humanist chaplains? Further questions are can atheist chaplains provide counseling for believer's of various traditions?

speak at our UU church.

This is, of course, somewhat conflicting as UU is now a "peace church" so it seems as odd as having a Quaker chaplain. That's another discussion, however. But we did have some discussion about pushback against the seeming fundie takeover of the chaplain corps.

Seems to me that UU chaplains, should there be more of them, would be a good choice for ministering to those of little, or no, faith. Granted that all chaplains should be able to do that, but UUs already minister to a wide variety of faith.

I didn't attend services while in the Army, but I did on occasion avail myself of several chaplains. The Buddhist & UU ones were my choices though I did find that Catholic & Anglican ones were very responsive without all of the religious add-on's. And yes, since I was in, things have gotten far worse with the fundamentalists in the military. It was starting back in the late 80's and early 90's.

comes from the need to talk to someone in that type of position (spiritual counsel) who isn't affiliated with any religion. A counselor who isn't also christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist or any other religion either) so they're not going to say something wrong like "I know you're not faithful, but..." for example.

As for the bits about ministering to other faiths (so to speak), how does a christian chaplain deal with a Buddhist? Do they go through the Buddhist motions and trappings? Or do they give them the best spiritual treatment they can through their own view? If it's the first then military chaplains must go through rigorous training to learn every faith in the world to do their job, if it's the second, then it's a strawman argument.

An atheist won't seek spiritual counsel. They are seeking just counseling. But if they do not want to go the straight psychotherapy route, and most soldiers do not, then what is available are chaplains.

Not every base will have all types of chaplains for various religious traditions so they must 'counsel' many not of their faith. A fundamentalist in my experience will try to push Jesus and praying together on many that come to them. Main stream Protestant, Catholics, Buddhists, etc. will not. That is what pastoral counseling training gives them. It provides a secular counseling framework without the psychological & psychiatric diagnoses and treatment modalities that is used with or without the trappings of a particular religion. A Christian does not need to give a Buddhist the 'trappings' of Buddhism. They just counsel. A Christian does not need to push their beliefs on an atheist. They just counsel. So I really don't know what you think is a strawman argument?

If a secular humanist chaplain is made available, they will not only have to counsel atheists and agnostics but also the religious depending upon the base or the deployment. So what type of training will they have? That is what we are discussing. There really isn't a secular humanist 'church' that can 'ordain' or 'license' specific individuals like there are for the religious. They would obviously need a Masters level training and likely in psychology and/or pastoral counseling. Like other military chaplains, yes, they would need a basic knowledge level of the various religious traditions. Beyond that, I do not know what would or should be required. Do you?

why don't you ask them? The vast majority of atheists come from a religious background and so they do know about theology. A background in counseling would be helpful as well, I'd imagine. Christians seeing the atheist Chaplin would get the same treatment they would get from any other chaplin that is not of their faith.

"An atheist won't seek spiritual counsel." This is where the strawman comes in, implying that atheists don't have any conscience or morality, that they won't need help reconciling killing people with being a good person. I say "Spiritual counsel" to put it on the same level, because it's not just counseling, but you know that. Do Chaplains provide a service other than basic counseling? If they do then that service needs to be available to non-believers too, if they don't then we should just do away with it and provide secular counselors to all bases.

Atheist are not 'spiritual'. Only in your mind did I suggest they lack a conscience or morality. Hint, I would be considered an atheist as well.

In general, no, a person who does not believe in god or gods and does not follow a religion for their moral philosophy is not going to naturally turn to a minister, monk, or priest for 'counsel'.

If you think that psychologists and other counselors don't deal with moral and ethical issues, then you are sorely lacking in knowledge and experience.

This is another issue that arises with the New Atheism. How do you provide spiritual counseling and chaplaincy for those who are not spiritual and are not a 'religion'? How do you include atheists in Interfaith communities, when they technically are not a 'faith'?

To resolve this, atheist groups are going to form. They will have a structure, a hierarchy, a set of texts, traditions, a moral philosophy based on something other than religion, etc. When they do so, practical answers as to how such chaplains will be trained for the military are going to be easier to find.

As to your last question. Yes, of course, chaplains provide services other than counseling to those of the faith they share. They are ministers. They provide services and whatever rituals are a part of that particular persons religion. And do you realize how fucking entitled you sound? If a non-believer won't accept the religious portions of the chaplaincy, then all should go away to be provided by counselors? Bullshit. I had brothers and sisters in arms who were devout Muslims, Christians, Hindu's, etc. Just because I was an 'atheist' did not mean that they should be denied their religious traditions. When applicable I availed myself of their basic counseling services minus the ritual and belief. Sure, it would have been great to speak to a Stoic philosopher. That was the basis of my moral and ethical beliefs at the time, but sadly, there just aren't any Stoic colleges, advanced degrees and programs yet for Stoic Chaplains.

Would those secular professional credentials be all that's needed?

accepted. In theory, at least.

But, as TM99 explained above, the military has to accept a degree (or equivalent?) from a recognized authority, and then has more of its own rules for acceptance.

Would some sort Ethical Culture Society certification be acceptable? I don't know, but pretty sure they don't want any mail order preachers from the Church of the Sacred Whorehouse showing up.

counseling, that is inherently secular, is required. Chaplains are counselors when you get down to it, and belief in a deity is not required to be a counselor, wouldn't you agree? If so, non-belieiving (atheist) Chaplains should be no problem, right?

is required, but you would have to hear that from someone who actually knows the requirements.

Whether or not we agree on what we think a chaplain is, it is not our decision.

That's what's needed first.

Why else would they need chaplains?

Oh spiffing!

/Basil Fawlty