Religion
Related: About this forumTruth and Meaning: Religious Atheism
The Rev. Jeff Liebmann is minister of the Unitarian Universalist Fellowship of Midland and a contributing blogger at ourmidland.com.
Saturday, May 17, 2014, 8:00 am
Occasionally, I am called an atheist by someone believing that by doing so they are insulting me. Nothing could be further from the truth. Largely, their misconception derives from the false assumption that atheism and religion are mutually exclusive. They are not.
Religion does not require god. Let me repeat and reframe that. Being a religious person does not require a belief in a supernatural being.
Hundreds of different definitions of religion exist, each reflecting either a scholarly or a dogmatic bias depending on the presuppositions of the person making the definition. Religion clearly contains intellectual, ritual, social and ethical elements, bound together by an explicit or implicit belief in the reality of an unseen world, whether this belief be expressed in supernaturalistic or idealistic terms. A number of the more common definitions are those that presume the existence of the Sacred (Peter Berger, Emile Durkheim), the Supernatural/Divine (James Frazer, Immanuel Kant, Rodney Stark), or Order/Purpose (William James).
Some definitions of the term focus more on the presence of different states of being and humankinds grappling to come to terms with those differences, without making judgments regarding the nature of other states. George Hegel called religion "the knowledge possessed by the finite mind of its nature as absolute mind," while Friedrich Schleiermacher called it "a feeling for the infinite," and Alfred North Whitehead described it as "what the individual does with his own solitariness."
http://www.ourmidland.com/blogs/truth-and-meaning-religious-atheism/article_9bbf044a-dd4d-11e3-8001-0019bb2963f4.html
rrneck
(17,671 posts)I haven't read every single word here but I think this is the first time a statement like this has been posted here. By someone other than me.
bananas
(27,509 posts)rrneck
(17,671 posts)Jim__
(14,088 posts)'... to find meaning ...'
I like that definition - I'll have to think about it.
intaglio
(8,170 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)The word actually incorporates a circle of meanings and that's what makes it so verdant with equivocal deflections and a rich subject for discussion groups.
--imm
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)A-theism. Without belief.
Not difficult. This 'rev' is just another tool attempting to blur the lines between belief and non-belief. Gee, I wonder why.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Do you know what offal is?
rug
(82,333 posts)Do you prefer a synonym?
I'm partial to dreck myself.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"the edible internal parts of an animal, such as the heart, liver, and tongue"
rug
(82,333 posts)You should look up the literal meaning of drivel.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Specifically in the obscuring/cover radar return context, which is how I meant it.
It matters.
There has been an effort to equivocate atheism/theism as morally equal weight propositions for some time now. Mostly by mischaracterizing atheism, which the author you cited does brilliantly.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Word salad has a very specific definition. While you may not agree with this article or find it difficult to understand, it is most certainly not word salad.
If you are using it in some kind of "common" way, like you use delusional, you may want to clarify that, because I haven't seen it used like that except by people that don't really know what it is.
Besides a disbelief in god, what are the lines between belief and non-belief?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"Largely, their misconception derives from the false assumption that atheism and religion are mutually exclusive. They are not.
Religion does not require god. Let me repeat and reframe that. Being a religious person does not require a belief in a supernatural being."
Ok, the latter claim is true. Fine enough. However, it does nothing to support the first claim. In fact, they are wholly unrelated.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I actually did NOT know that was a clinical term.
Mea culpa.
That line of logic used by the author is what I would describe as unintelligible, but word salad was clearly not the correct term.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I may be oversensitive about this, but I really try to object when I see psychiatric terms used in a colloquial way.
Thanks, AC.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)clinical/technical manner.
I bet a lot of people have no idea the true meaning of the term. I've certainly seen it used here, to describe speeches made by Bachmann, Putin, and Palin.
It gets used a lot in the gungeon too.
I'll point it out from now on when I see it used in that manner. I thought you were screwing with me at first.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Hope you understand my reasons for objecting.
Sometimes I don't understand what you are trying to communicate, but I have never seen you exhibit word salad, lol!
edhopper
(33,635 posts)but "word salad" has also entered the popular lexicon to refer to people like Sarah Palin, who string together a lot of words that say little or nothing.
That is probably what AC meant.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)something entirely different.
In general, when one takes serious psychiatric terms and applies them in a colloquial way, it minimizes the seriousness and plight of those who actually have these illnesses.
The word "retarded" is the clearest example.
but clearly a word like "retarded" is known by most who use it and what it refers to.
I would guess most have heard "word salad" in reference to people like Palin and not schizophrenics.
You have educated AC, who probably won't use it in this context again.
Dorian Gray
(13,503 posts)I had no idea it was a clinical term. (Though I don't use it very much, I always read it as "jumbled, unclear writing."
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)I think the rev is making an interesting point. And even if I disagree, it is with a clearly articulated position. Likewise, a Christian explaining how homosexuals are causing god to withdraw his veil of protection and thus bringing floods and hurricanes and possibly a meteor, I would object to the content but clearly understand the argument.
The word salad definition is just another way of saying bullshit. When you finally parse through the pile of words you literally have no content. When the speaker is stalling and flailing, it's obvious. When the speaker is on his game, you feel satisfied and like there's a real answer until you actually try to unpack those words.
Hysterical used to be a medical term but it has since been deprecated while remaining in the popular vernacular in a completely different context.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It originated as a term describing a "wandering uterus". Freud, of course, used it extensively as a medical term applicable only to women.
Recognized as fairly sexist, it was phased out of medical terminology and not used at all these days.
It is used colloquially, but many still consider it a very sexist term and object to it.
jollyreaper2112
(1,941 posts)I'm aware of the history but most people simply think of it as meaning "extraordinarily funny." The history is lost on them.