Religion
Related: About this forumGrowing up without god, but not without a rich fantasy world.
When I was four my best friend in the whole world (BFF but that didn't exist yet) was another four year old down the street, Sally. We were inseparable. I would get up in the morning and walk down the hill to her house and we would spend the rest of the day in our make believe world of four year old play.
On reflection, what a different world the early 50's were. At the age of four I could walk out the house and down the road to a neighbor's house. Unattended. On my own.
It was around this time that my mom made me a cat costume for Halloween, and for the next few months I pretty much wore that costume every day. On with the costume, and I was a black cat.
I was raised an atheist. There was no god in my family. No church. No temple. No indoctrination. I was aware that other families had this thing we didn't have. They went to church, they believed in "jesus". I remember being taken to church one Sunday by another neighbor, I guess as an experience my parents thought I should have. I recall thinking it was quite boring, as I'm sure every other child in attendance also felt. We celebrated a secular Christmas and Easter. My dad was raised Catholic, my mom was raised Jewish, but they had both lost their religion in the crucible of the Great Depression and WWII. They had set out to raise their children without god and so they did, but they always made it clear to all of us that religion was a choice one could make.
One evening I was over at Sally's house and we were playing up in her room. It was getting near bed time, and she was determined to show me what she did before bed every night: she prayed to god. And so she got on her knees, her elbows on her bed, and started having a fervent conversation with nobody. Until then I didn't really get what religion was. Then I did. It was make believe, it was like what happened when I put on my cat costume, or when Sally and I invented fantasy worlds in the tree house in her yard. The only thing was, for Sally this wasn't make believe. I grasped that she thought she was talking to somebody real.
That moment has stayed with me for almost 60 years.
pretzel4gore
(8,146 posts)INTELLIGENCE we know exists within this time frame...yet despite 15 billion years of... million mistakes for one success ie natural selection/evolution, we still get to watch one busybody faction of humanity SNAP the finger and create another INTELLIGENCE it calls god, out of nothing- and also forcing the LAW to exist only under its domain!
Our whole goddam culture is corrupted by
"The best lack all conviction,while the worst are fulla passionate intensity" as the Saintly Che Guevera once stated....
Htom Sirveaux
(1,242 posts)I had a similar upbringing and experience of incredulity at other children's religious expression. I didn't understand, and looking back on it now, I'm not sure how much they understood either. The worldview in which the idea of God makes sense (as opposed to being something that is just believed because you were told to, or because you're afraid of what will happen if you don't) is not really an intuitive one in everyday culture. So we get the magic old bearded white man in the sky.
edhopper
(33,593 posts)I also had a middle-class Jewish upbringing and was taught the Bible stories.
It wasn't a part of my fantasy world and never presented as such.
When I was encouraged to use my imagination or pretend, religion was not part of those episodes.
It wasn't until I was older when I realized how much my fantasy play had in common with my religious teachings.
rug
(82,333 posts)aikoaiko
(34,174 posts)On Sun Jul 27, 2014, 04:32 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
From your posts, your understanding of it doesn't appear to have progressed beyond that point.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=143070
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Ugly, snide-ey personal-attack response to a reasonable OP
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:09 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post is quite condescending and the poster sounds like a "holier than thou" asshole, but I don't think it rates a hide.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Unnecessary. Judgmental. We let you live.... don't we?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Fighting snide with deserving snide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Rather tame jab at best.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree w. alert. Gratuitously ad hominem.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.A
rug
(82,333 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Bad juror #1.
rug
(82,333 posts)So, what did the jurors say about your 4 hides?
mr blur
(7,753 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)You've been busy since you returned from 5 hides.
Thanks for owning up. I'll see you around.
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)children don't and can't understand the nuances of concepts of religion, theology, spirituality.
Children in religious families are usually dogmatic in what they understand, as when, for example, they tell another child he'll "go to hell" if he doesn't _______ (fill in the blank).
Religious ceremonies are not constructed for a child's mind and no one should be surprised that they are bored or restless when brought to such services.
edhopper
(33,593 posts)boring and and being restless as an adult?
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)My curiosity leads me to try to understand what is being offered in that place.
I know that the practices are rooted deep in history and culture, and I want to be a part of that.
Much more, but I don't feel up to the psychoanalysis necessary for expressing the whole at this time.
Htom Sirveaux
(1,242 posts)No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)Occasionally witness a baptism or marriage.
Htom Sirveaux
(1,242 posts)although I have watched masses on TV (EWTN) before.
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)I went to the ordination of a friend as an Episcopal deacon at the Episcopal cathedral in my city, and it was, as they say, more Catholic than the Pope. I felt very comfortable, though awed, during that service.
As for attending a Roman Catholic mass, it can likely be confusing if one is not familiar with the liturgy. And some masses are well done, some are routine and hurriedly done. Good and bad homilists. Good and bad music. I believe many/most Catholics go through life unaware of the elements that are part of the Mass as we know it today.
Once in a while a funeral or other ceremony is presented on TV where someone knowledgeable on what is happening explains the various elements to the viewers. Masses on EWTN usually presume a knowledge of RC liturgy.
pinto
(106,886 posts)Beautiful pieces. Church as theater, in a way. Which was likely the point at one time.
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)sung in Latin. Ex. The Sanctus, or the Pater Noster, or Kyrie (in Greek).
I always enjoy joining in - that doesn't seem to leave one, just like how to ride a bike never leaves.
Once in a great while, Benediction is done, and the Tantum Ergo just doesn't translate well into English
I grew up, too, with women wearing hats or veils, and the boys preparing to be servers.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)My good friend Sally was having a conversation with her imaginary friend god. It is only after years and years of indoctrination that adults think something else is going on.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)The alleged subtleties were sophistries.
pinto
(106,886 posts)I can relate to the 50's, those were my childhood years. Somewhere around 4th grade I walked to school. Alone or with my sibs, friends. We stayed out futzing around in the neighborhood 'till sundown - that was the get home marker. A very different time from today I guess.
Mom was Catholic, Dad an Episcopalian. We were all introduced to Catholicism, all baptized, yet I never felt there were any strings attached so to speak. I also experienced temple services with a Jewish friend. I liked both rituals. And both cultures - I think that was my take away from my early days. I recognized a cultural component to it all.
None of my sibs followed up in any religious involvement. I did, though. Completed the CCC classes. Got confirmed. It's seen as a coming of age ceremony like the Jewish bar mitzvah.
Though I don't practice the religion of my past much at all, I value the community it still represents. And some of that community are positive actors in our larger communities. A cultural Catholic seems apt in this context, for me.
Thanks again.
No Vested Interest
(5,167 posts)The cultural aspect often becomes the social aspect as one goes out into the wider world.