Religion
Related: About this forumReligion has taken center stage in America's political debates
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/topoftheticket/la-na-tt-religion-center-stage-20140731-story.htmlPolitical commentary from David Horsey
Near the banks of the Clearwater River in Idaho there is an earthen mound that members of the Nez Perce tribe, by tradition, believe is the center of the world, the place from which all people originated. It is unlikely that very many Nez Perce believe this is literally true but, even if they believed the myth with all of their heart and soul, they would find it impossible to impose their belief on the rest of the country. There are just not enough of them.
There are many more Muslims in the world and a fair share of them feel compelled to enforce their version of religious truth. The Taliban in Afghanistan, the army of militant Sunnis in Syria and Iraq and numerous radical, religiously motivated factions in other Islamic countries simply cant stand the idea that other people may not see things the way they do. They are willing and eager to imprison and kill to enforce their beliefs.
In Uganda, political leaders who claim to be Christian think its perfectly fine to execute gays and lesbians. They are inspired by a narrow reading of the Bible and cheered on by zealots from the United States who think modern-day persecution of homosexuals is justified by a few passages taken from texts written in distant millenniums. Oklahoma state legislator Scott Esk has said we would be totally in the right to stone gays to death because that is what God desires. In the ranks of Americas religious right, Esk is more outspoken but not alone in his interpretation of Scripture.
Many people observe the worlds multiple sectarian conflicts and look back at the religiously inspired wars, pogroms and persecutions that have scarred history and conclude that religion is the source of most human misery. Really, though, religion isnt precisely the problem. People who hold fervent beliefs and want to inflict them on everyone else -- they are the problem.
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intaglio
(8,170 posts)Although individuals who follow faith can be pretty good* people.
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* please don't ask me to explain "good"
cbayer
(146,218 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)On top of my objections is their insistence on forcing their beliefs on others. Nothing in religion is as harmful as that. (Second, but close, is that God gave us this land. Also responsible for reprehensible behavior.)
Humanity will either learn to control these things, or we may be doomed. One may claim that religions do good things. But if one makes that claim, one has to also take the hind side.
Proselytization is an insidious, horrible action. One cannot claim to be doing good when one is using that good solely to "convert". Of course, there's also Hell to pay for the prospect if the conversion doesn't take. That's a near universal in the proselytization handbook, a combination of god's love and the threat of eternal damnation. What a bunch of abject lies! And they go after the children with this crapola!! I agree with Dawkins, threatening children with eternal hellfire is child abuse.
I want to live to see an end to this, but I suspect we'll all be like the Gingham Dog and the Callico Cat.
by Eugene Fields
The gingham dog and the calico cat
Side by side on the table sat;
'T was half-past twelve, and (what do you think!)
Nor one nor t' other had slept a wink!
The old Dutch clock and the Chinese plate
Appeared to know as sure as fate
There was going to be a terrible spat.
(I was n't there; I simply state
What was told to me by the Chinese plate!)
The gingham dog went "Bow-wow-wow!"
And the calico cat replied "Mee-ow!"
The air was littered, an hour or so,
With bits of gingham and calico,
While the old Dutch clock in the chimney-place
Up with its hands before its face,
For it always dreaded a family row!
(Now mind: I'm only telling you
What the old Dutch clock declares is true!)
The Chinese plate looked very blue,
And wailed, "Oh, dear! what shall we do!"
But the gingham dog and the calico cat
Wallowed this way and tumbled that,
Employing every tooth and claw
In the awfullest way you ever saw
And, oh! how the gingham and calico flew!
(Don't fancy I exaggerate
I got my news from the Chinese plate!)
Next morning, where the two had sat
They found no trace of dog or cat;
And some folks think unto this day
That burglars stole that pair away!
But the truth about the cat and pup
Is this: they ate each other up!
Now what do you really think of that!
(The old Dutch clock it told me so,
And that is how I came to know.)
A poetic remembrance from my childhood which seems appropriate.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I agree with you about proselytization, but I feel the same whether it is for the purpose of conversion or deconversion.
Live and let live. Live and don't try to impose what you do or don't believe on others. Let it be.
longship
(40,416 posts)However, I do care about how they act. Too many very religious people in this world act very, very poorly.
Does anybody honestly think that the Palestinian/Israel conflict would not be long solved if it wasn't for religion?
I agree with the live and let live maxim. It's a good one.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I don't see much point in divining whether they are religious or not. Like you, I don't care what they believe, I care about how they act.
As for the I/P conflict, I think religion plays a role, but it's so much more complicated than that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)He insulted the other one's beliefs.