Religion
Related: About this forumAnother week, another atheist demands we call his sexism not-sexism. (This time, Sam Harris.)
(Image via Steve Jurvetson, Creative Commons licensed)
Amanda Marcotte
17 Sep 2014
Another week, another dudely atheist whose supposed rationalism cant seem to stop him from engaging in emotion-driven temper tantrums because those mean ladies insist you actually apply the same rational lens to sexism as you do religion. This weeks contestant is Sam Harris, who was criticized for suggesting that its womens biological inferiority to men that drives women out of the atheist movement and not, say, the widespread acceptance of sexism that makes women feel unwelcome.
His theory that men are inherently better at being able to take rough-and-tumble criticism and women are inherently reluctant to participate in such a thing was immediately put to the test, as his comments received quite a bit of rough-and-tumble criticism from women who, defying their estrogenic destinies, told him where to shove his gender essentialist ideas. He, in turn, defied his testosteronic heritage by getting his fee-fees hurt. Perhaps it is not true that the critical posture is inherently masculine? Could it be possible that the swift hurt of male feelings suggests that womens nurturing stance is a socialized reaction to mens inability to take criticism of their ideas, particularly from women?
Is it possible that men and women are possibly more alike than Harriss worldview has allowed?
Nah, he cant be wrong. Hes Sam Harris! And so hes going to drown us in words to show how mean we are to criticize him about his suggestion that being female makes us less critical and ugh, getting a headache now. Lets just get into it. His response is titled, Im Not the Sexist Pig Youre Looking For. Indeed, as his comments showed, we dont have to go looking for sexist pigs, as they happen to fall right in our laps. I would like, in fact, for sexist pigs to quit falling in my lap, honestly. But here we are and so Im going to at least have some fun with it.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/09/another-week-another-atheist-demands-we-call-his-sexism-not-sexism-this-time-sam-harris/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory
https://www.secularstudents.org/speakers/AmandaMarcotte
Wait Wut
(8,492 posts)He's just a Grad A Ass. Slap a cross on him, he's still an ass. Wrap him in a yellow robe and shave his head, yep...still an ass.
rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)pigs actually treat each other like this.
What did pigs ever do to anyone to deserve this rep?
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Pigs are generally very kind and they provide us with wonderful things, like bacon.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)As a female medical professional, you would be in the middle of this controversy.
How do you feel about the objectivity of the data there? 1) For some time Med Schools have been admitting more and more women; though this is not a strictly scientific but also "caring" profession perhaps?
In the meantime, 2) males are overwhelming dominant in science and engineering.
Thoughts on this?
rug
(82,333 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)issue. it is not a party issue. it is a man issue.
longship
(40,416 posts)On Thu Sep 18, 2014, 10:13 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
we hear and see the same on a democratic progressive board. it is not a atheist issue or religious
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=153046
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"It's a man issue" typically sexist insult from this one. She'd be the first to alert if someone had posted that some social issue was "a woman issue"
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Sep 18, 2014, 10:20 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The original post is about sexism, this post is just fine.
Leave it.
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Explanation: Stop the alert stalking, Discussionist. Just stop.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I just posted something similar and I am a man- I would suggest that it is a "some men issue" but whatever.
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Somehow my comment did not get posted. I think I was #7.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with your post because sexism IS a man issue.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)There's absolutely nothing wrong with your post because sexism IS a man issue.
this should be a stand alone OP in the fluidity of thought.
thanks longship. just perfectly, the way you put it, the clarity.... was... yummy in the obvious. fun.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)it is not the end of the world, honestly. pretty easy.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)When "kumbayah" is used as a descriptor to attack people, you know you've got a problem.
Good for you Amanda. Don't stop.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)What a pile of unmitigated male-centric stupidity.
Oh Sam, please get a grip. First atheist spirituality now macho arrogance. Next step -- priesthood. If I ever wanted to tell someone to shut up, it would be you, Sam, now.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)And after that, maybe he can be a saint
..
or something.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Ladies, our journey is long. Persevere!
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Sometimes those who are lacking a particular point of privilege are blind to the ones they hold.
The denial of issues related to sexism within the atheist community needs to be challenged, and this author is definitely up to the task.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)those of us within the 'movement' need to convince them of their wrongheadedness. This would be one of those times.
edhopper
(33,604 posts)and not to give credence to Harris' statement, there is the question why twice as many men are atheists than women.
I have also found that there are usually more men in this type of activist organization than women.
I am not sure of the reason for the first, I suppose it is more cultural than anything innate to the sexes, but that is just speculation.
As for the second, my guess is there are many specific issues for woman in this society so when they choose to be an activist, there are more pressing problems they become involved in.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I think we have to examine a great many cultural influences. Off the top of my head, I think of a few.
Girls have historically performed less well in math/science curricula.
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/03/07/the-truth-about-gender-and-math/
.. one study found that the gender gap in math ability and the level of gender inequality in a society were highly correlated. That is,
the gender gap in math, although it historically favors boys, disappears in more gender-equal societies.
That is one area of influence where I can link to studies which may support my assertion.
Secondly, I'd like to find a study that examines the relationship between powerlessness and religiosity, but I came up with nothing after a cursory search. Still, I think that may be an area of interest as we examine gender disparities.
Also, churches figured out very early on that free child care is key in getting women to attend. So there's the whole child-rearing aspect of being female in modern society.
Those are just a few areas of interest to me. I could probably think of more if I did so intentionally.
To chalk it up to hormones, as Harris has done, or some sort of shrewishness (for lack of a more concise term) as Dawkins has done is simplistic thinking and not worthy of their intellect.
edhopper
(33,604 posts)I think you are on the right track.
One thing Harris alludes to that I think might be sort of right, is that the confrontational style of some of the atheist organizations might not appeal to women as much. Though not for the reasons he says.