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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 08:30 AM Sep 2014

Former President Jimmy Carter On Gay Rights: Jesus Christ Never Discriminated Against Anyone

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/jimmy-carter-gay-rights_n_5878250.html

Huffington Post | By Carol Kuruvilla

Posted: 09/24/2014 6:22 pm EDT Updated: 09/24/2014 6:59 pm EDT

A packed college auditorium roared with applause when former President Jimmy Carter took a stand for gay rights.

When asked about his views on human rights and the LGBT community, Carter schooled the crowd at Michigan’s Grand Rapids Community College with some of his Christian theology.

“I never knew of any word or action of Jesus Christ that discriminated against anyone,” Carter said, according to a video from MLive.

The 89-year-old then likened discrimination based on sexual orientation to prejudice against a person’s skin color, economic class, and “whether they’re living in a foreign country or our country.”

more, including video, at link
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Former President Jimmy Carter On Gay Rights: Jesus Christ Never Discriminated Against Anyone (Original Post) cbayer Sep 2014 OP
Why didn't he have any women among the 12 apostles, then? n/t trotsky Sep 2014 #1
I understand edhopper Sep 2014 #2
LMAO! n/t trotsky Sep 2014 #3
a binder, actually, or maybe a trapper keeper. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #25
Why weren't there any women on the Sanhedrin? rug Sep 2014 #4
So Jesus edhopper Sep 2014 #10
He became a human being. rug Sep 2014 #12
I am not God edhopper Sep 2014 #14
We're talking about human nature. You brought it up. rug Sep 2014 #20
I thought Jesus was better edhopper Sep 2014 #21
I thought you were less prejudiced than most. rug Sep 2014 #22
Huh? edhopper Sep 2014 #23
What about the moneylenders? DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #5
That's not discrimination. That's political action based on behavior. cbayer Sep 2014 #6
It's also discrimination based on disapproval of behavior. DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #7
I disagree. Discrimination involves prejudice. cbayer Sep 2014 #8
Yes, because brandishing a whip is always a good response when someone is doing something... trotsky Sep 2014 #9
Discrimination is a type of behavior DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #11
So boycotting Hobby Lobby is discrimination? okasha Sep 2014 #16
Certainly DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #17
Agreed. okasha Sep 2014 #18
True, but in this case DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #19
Read the passage again. okasha Sep 2014 #27
He called them that, but the passage doesn't DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #28
That's a curious comment. okasha Sep 2014 #29
I have no idea what the author of the gospel thought DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #30
The purging of the Temple okasha Sep 2014 #31
Bits and pieces DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #37
I think if you did, okasha Sep 2014 #39
Actually, okasha, no one has any idea what the mindset of the gospel writers was. trotsky Sep 2014 #38
That may be your broad interpretation, but I don't agree with it, and cbayer Sep 2014 #35
Lots of bigots in the world would love to hide behind that little shield. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #33
As an atheist ... captfoster5 Sep 2014 #13
How can an atheist be close or closer to God? DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #15
The less you believe in something that doesn't exist the closer you are to Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #24
Yes, but I don't think that's what captfoster4 was saying DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #26
And indeed you would be, compared to those worshipping Zeus or Wippyshaw. Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #34
Hah! DavidDvorkin Sep 2014 #36
Sins of omission... brooklynite Sep 2014 #32
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
4. Why weren't there any women on the Sanhedrin?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 11:46 AM
Sep 2014

Why weren't there any women in the Roman Senate?

A really stupid question.

edhopper

(33,625 posts)
10. So Jesus
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 03:38 PM
Sep 2014

The living incarnate of the omnipotent God of the Universe, couldn't overcome the prejudices of his times?

edhopper

(33,625 posts)
14. I am not God
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:27 PM
Sep 2014

nor am I omnipotent or omnipresent.
But I'd say I have less prejudice than many and I try to see when I do.
But thanks for comparing me to your Lord, I must say I am flattered.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
20. We're talking about human nature. You brought it up.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 08:21 PM
Sep 2014

You "have less prejudice than many". Ok, I'll take your word for it.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
8. I disagree. Discrimination involves prejudice.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 03:12 PM
Sep 2014

His actions with the money changers was a response to their actions, not a prejudice.

If one were to use your definition then you would have to take the position that everyone discriminates because everyone has some behaviors which they disapprove.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
9. Yes, because brandishing a whip is always a good response when someone is doing something...
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 03:16 PM
Sep 2014

that you don't like.

Technically you might say he was prejudiced against people who interpreted religious texts differently. Religious intolerance.

DavidDvorkin

(19,489 posts)
11. Discrimination is a type of behavior
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 06:50 PM
Sep 2014

What motivates it is a different issue and doesn't determine whether or not the behavior is discriminatory.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
16. So boycotting Hobby Lobby is discrimination?
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:47 PM
Sep 2014

The civil rights workers at Selma were discriminating against the white majority?

Well, well. Learn something new every day.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
18. Agreed.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:58 PM
Sep 2014

But since "discriminate" is ususlly interpreted as a pejorative, perhaps a better word choice here would be "distinguish among/between. "

DavidDvorkin

(19,489 posts)
19. True, but in this case
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 08:04 PM
Sep 2014

the pejorative meaning seems to be appropriate. From what I read long ago, what the money changers were doing was perfectly within Jewish law and not offensive. They were performing a needed service. Jesus was violently imposing his own restrictive ideas on them, to the inconvenience of everyone else. Very Talibanish.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
27. Read the passage again.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 09:41 PM
Sep 2014

They were cheating the public. They were a part of the practice of forcing worshippers to buy sacrificial victims from the "authorized dealerships" in the Temple, rather than bringing their own animals. We'd call them scam artists. Jesus calls them "a den of thieves."

DavidDvorkin

(19,489 posts)
28. He called them that, but the passage doesn't
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 10:52 PM
Sep 2014

The implication, to me, is that he considered them thieves because of what they were legitimately doing, not because they were cheating people:

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
29. That's a curious comment.
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 11:12 PM
Sep 2014

Are you assuming that the author of the gospel might not have considered Jesus' action appropriate?

In the gospel of John, Jesus stops the legal execution of a woman "taken in adultery." Was that "Talibanish?"

DavidDvorkin

(19,489 posts)
30. I have no idea what the author of the gospel thought
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 11:44 PM
Sep 2014

No one today does.

The "Talibanish" comment referred to Jesus imposing his narrow ideas about what was appropriate within the Temple -- a rigid, puritanical morality. The execution story presents a different picture, but it's also a different gospel. The various versions of the myth were not well integrated.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
31. The purging of the Temple
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 11:55 PM
Sep 2014

is also narrated in John.

Would it be correct to assume that you have never read the narratives on which you are commenting? That's the only way I can account for your statement that neither you nor anyone else today knows the mindset of the gospel writers.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
39. I think if you did,
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 12:29 PM
Sep 2014

it would become clear from the text that the purpose of the gospels, from the writers' points of view, is to establish that Jesus is the Messiah. This means that his coming inaugurates a new Kingdom of Heaven not subject to the rule of the Roman occupying forces or their collaborators in the Temple hierarchy. The gospels do not present either of those organizations in a favorable light. This makes the clearing of the Temple an act of justice non behalf of the people of Israel.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
38. Actually, okasha, no one has any idea what the mindset of the gospel writers was.
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 11:23 AM
Sep 2014

Because we don't even know who they were. Do you have any evidence at all to the contrary?

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
35. That may be your broad interpretation, but I don't agree with it, and
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 09:16 AM
Sep 2014

I think that Carter had a different definition in mind as well.

Perhaps it would be best to go with his in this case.

captfoster5

(13 posts)
13. As an atheist ...
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 07:05 PM
Sep 2014

I sometimes feel like I'm closer to God than most religious folks, especially as it pertains to the average Christian right-winger.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
24. The less you believe in something that doesn't exist the closer you are to
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 09:11 PM
Sep 2014

understanding the non-existence of that thing. The atheist is closer to a full understanding of god, a oneness with the reality of the god concept, than the theist.

DavidDvorkin

(19,489 posts)
26. Yes, but I don't think that's what captfoster4 was saying
Thu Sep 25, 2014, 09:17 PM
Sep 2014

I might as well say I'm close to an understanding of Zeus. Or Wippyshaw, a god I just invented.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
34. And indeed you would be, compared to those worshipping Zeus or Wippyshaw.
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 07:32 AM
Sep 2014

They are blinded by their faith and cannot see the emptiness of their belief.

brooklynite

(94,745 posts)
32. Sins of omission...
Fri Sep 26, 2014, 12:06 AM
Sep 2014

...if he didn't stand up for the equality of women and he didn't call for an end to slavery, he was being discriminatory.

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