I am intrigued by those who support it but are anti-choice because they don't think a "life" should be taken.

OTOH, some of the most effective and vocal anti-DP advocates have come from religious communities.

Even here, we see some division on the matter.

His story is interesting but his position may be what it is with or without religion.

I haven't seen any survey data on atheists and the DP, have you?

It would probably show that most self-identified atheists oppose the death penalty. But my bet is because most self-identied atheists are liberal. The reason would be their political orientation not their atheism, which is mute on the subject.

I see atheism, as well as religious belief, as a conclusion that one comes to; a conclusion informed by one's experiences, knowledge*, and, yes, prior beliefs. So yeah, I don't think that people oppose the death penalty because they're atheists, but are (partly) atheists because they oppose the death penalty. That's only true if you come to atheism from the liberal path. It's totally possible to come to atheism from a deeply reactionary, conservative path too; c.f. Ayn Rand. That's why attempts to turn atheism into a sociopolitico ideology ala the A Plusers rub me the wrong way.

*Note that I am in NOT saying that atheists are smarter, or better educated, than religious believers. Only that our specific knowledge and experiences lead us to specific conclusions. In other words, I think doxastic voluntarism is bullshit.

to my attention.

This is an argument that I have frequently made. I do not think that many, if not most, people can choose to be religious believers or not. Ask anyone if they could choose to be the other. I've never had a single person tell me that they could.

Only in this Group would you see a sentence like "Doxastic voluntarism is bullshit." Those four words sum up the entire experience.

as ridiculous as telling someone they should become a believer.

That is what makes the whole "I'm better than you" argument so illegitimate.

As well as political science, behavioral economics, and even neuroscience. Frans de Waal would say probably ethology does too, and while I'm a fan of his work, I'm not ready to go quite that far.

If I get really motivated, I may start a thread on it.

Thanks for the information.

Especially since it goes to the problem of free will. The philosophers have been working that nut for thousands of years, and the scientists for only the past half century.

I could make an interesting discussion.

I find the glibness of those that think one can just become a believer or non-believer by choice hard to swallow.

People only believe it is possible to move from one position to the other in the case of moving towards their position.

But I frequently ask proselytizing atheists and theists whether they could choose to change to the other, and they never say yes.

Last edited Mon Nov 10, 2014, 07:12 PM - Edit history (1)

The ones I know who oppose it are liberals. I am not really making a point. Just an observation.

who support the death penalty and are anti abortion say that the person was sentenced to death for murderer after a trial. The unborn child is innocent of any crime and should get the chance to live.

Some say the execution of the killer brings closure to the family of the victims. I thank God I never had to go through that.

otherwise consider a pretty hypocritical position.

I am also very glad that I never had to go through anything involving either the murder of a loved one or an execution of a convicted murderer.

Welcome to the DU religion group, Ink Man.

'atheist as an amoral type, someone whose compassion for other human beings is as limited as his or her faith'

I've never seen it expressed here.

But I'm not sure why humanity should be "strange" in an atheist.

Nothing unusual about it.... no matter the subject.

But there are those that hold that position and they need to be called out.

i work with an atheist who is the most obnoxious self serving asshole you would ever meet and I bet he wants to fry them.

Nor is the lack of compassion or empathy, imo.

On the DP issue framed in the piece, I wonder if an execution helps bring closure to a victim's loved ones. I really don't know, having no first hand experience. And hopefully never will.

Personally my perspectives on religion, atheism, faith and doubt have evolved over time. Yet I remain adamant about my opposition to the death penalty across the board.

(on edit) Odd headline for the editors of the paper to lead with.

But I am strongly anti-DP, so I speak from that perspective.

I have heard relatives of victims express relief that the perpetrator was put to death.

I agree with you. No matter what happens to me in terms of religious beliefs, I can't see my attitude about the DP changing. Would it change, though, if someone that I love deeply was brutally murdered?

I don't know.

Agree about the headline. Poor choice, imo.

Just my take. I've seen the inside a bit working in a state prison.

But as you say, what would be my reaction? I don't know.

I would not do well in prison, of that I am sure.

However, my worst fear about it has disappeared! I think they no longer allow smoking and now that I am a non-smoker, that doesn't bother me at all.

I'm still walking around with a scrip for the "patch" and a pack of cigs...

Let me know if you are interested.

Universal compassion and tolerance are very controversial emotions.

and some of the most effective advocates for people on death row have been nuns and priests.

I don't doubt that that was his experience, but I don't think it's generally reflective of catholic churches.

ALL cases.

The DP is, ostensibly, a defense mechanism employed by the state on behalf of the society from which it is formed. Meaning, in part, on MY behalf.

I can kill in self defense. No problem there. Present an imminent, clear threat, and I will react. But I will not condone killing someone, even a very, very bad someone, on my behalf, if they do not present a threat to me. (Or anyone else, really.)

I don't doubt such a person must need expensive, comprehensive isolation from being a threat to his or her guards, and other inmates, but that is infinitely more manageable than.. say... un-deading a wrongfully executed prisoner.

You draw a good distinction. Death penalty versus imminent self-defense.

Fuck the DP.